Ditto Tim and Sunnydays again.
So sorry! Must disagree. I know very few breeders of top show jumpers in Germany who are doing ETs. The ones that do it most are with the mares that have gone on to be really special in sport. I have to stick to my opinion that most of the best mares stay in the field.
[QUOTE=SCMSL;6713825]
Actually this is untrue. The really good mares are used for sports, and breeders do ET with them. We want to have the foals from said special mare, but a foal from competitive parents is always more commercial than one who only has the dad competing.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=showjumpers66;6725726]
So sorry! Must disagree. I know very few breeders of top show jumpers in Germany who are doing ETs. The ones that do it most are with the mares that have gone on to be really special in sport. I have to stick to my opinion that most of the best mares stay in the field.[/QUOTE]
Our understanding is that, in fact, ETs are not widely accepted in Europe, in part, because Europeans believe that the initial phase of nurture with a different sort of mare than the dam has a negative impact on the mental development of the foal .
Yes, that is the feedback the German breeders have given me, also. The ones that I know of doing ETs on performance mares are private owners and not breeders per se.
In regards to it being more commercial for the mare to have a sports record, I have to disagree with that point, too. For a buyer of a top sport prospect, it is far more important to hear that the mother has produced successful sport horses, approved stallions, premium mares who have had excellent scores in the mare performance tests, etc. than that the mother herself competed at upper level sport. Or if the mare is just starting her breeding career, that her mother and grandmother have produced successfully.
For example (this is a fictional situation), you have a mare that competed at Grand Prix very successfully. She is from an interesting pedigree … say she is by Ramiro and out of a Alme mare. She has an acceptable mother line and is a 3/4 sister to Ratina Z. But … she is short legged, long backed, and lacks correctness and harmony in her conformation. You look at her performance results, see huge success, and that she retired sound, but no one tells you she was hot and difficult in the mouth and that it took 4 people to tack her. You breed her appropriately and produce unattractive foals who are difficult who may or may not be able to jump. I can not tell you how often I have seen a situation similar to this.
Well, there is more to Europe than Germany, and even in Germany ET’s are being increasingly more popular.
“because Europeans believe that the initial phase of nurture with a different sort of mare than the dam has a negative impact on the mental development of the foal .”
I have NEVER heard anyone say anything like this!
The only reason its still not widely used is because of cost, but I guess that goes on all over the world.
I’m just sharing what I know, from actually being in Europe.
“because Europeans believe that the initial phase of nurture with a different sort of mare than the dam has a negative impact on the mental development of the foal .”
I have NEVER heard anyone say anything like this!
Might be the opinion of only one breeder, but still, it is one good breeder:
Quote from the book of Christopher Hector (the Making of the modern warmblood), interviewing Jan Greve (page 318):
Q: Everyone seems to have gone off using embryo transplants - once they were the big thing in Europe, now no-one very much doing it?
A: “Because it costs a lot of money, and not enough comes out of it. It is not like a cow, with the horse it is very important for the first four or five months, wich mare is next to the foal. They tried to use the cold blood mares to carry the foals - nothing - the cold blood mare just stands under the tree, and the foal just stands around too, and he is a dummy, he is ruined for life before he is one year one. (…) That’s the trick with the mother, it is very important, who educates the foal. What they use now are warmblood mares, maybe that is better.”
And the rest of this article is very interesting as well. Good book to read. 
I really need to order it. Must be super interesting!
But still, confirms what I’ve been saying.
we are in europe each year, and this is a well-worn, commonly discussed sentiment, and has been for years.
no idea which europe you go to. sorry.
[QUOTE=SCMSL;6726676]
Well, there is more to Europe than Germany, and even in Germany ET’s are being increasingly more popular.
“because Europeans believe that the initial phase of nurture with a different sort of mare than the dam has a negative impact on the mental development of the foal .”
I have NEVER heard anyone say anything like this!
The only reason its still not widely used is because of cost, but I guess that goes on all over the world.
I’m just sharing what I know, from actually being in Europe.[/QUOTE]
I guess we’ll just agree to disagree then.
Well, I have no opinion about ET use in Europe. I have no knowledge of what they do or not regarding ET overseas. The only real use I see about ET (for me) is to be able to get more than one foal out of a particular mare per year.
I have the tendancy to believe that if I breed one day a very nice filly, who turns out to be a above average mare, I would rather keep her for breeding, instead of selling her for sport. I would like to know what she is capable of before of course. And I think this is the whole purpose of the MPT. You get an idea of the potential. A glimpse. Then her foals and her family tells the rest.
OTOH, I would not spit on a retiring GP mare of nice bloodlines and decent confo if one’s have one to give away
Hey Spike, I hear ya!
