When slaughter is banned;

[SuperSTB]

Everyone seems to be arguing the 90,000 unwanted horses but the evidence just is NOT there to support it. The quanity slaughtered VARIES from year to year- used to be over a quarter million, few years back it was less than 50,000.

SLAUGHTERHOSES DO NOT CONTROL THE EBB AND FLO OF UNWANTED HORSES!!! The ECONOMY has a primary role. THEREFORE… to use the QUANITY of UNWANTED horses in the actual debate of banning slaughter is an insignificant argument.

How many times can this be presented???

Slaughterhouses simply provide a resourse of disposal for an EXTREMELY LIMITED amount of horse owners.

[JumpingPaints]

[QUOTE=Plumcreek;1867993]
“It’s been DONE” You mean, other than the bolt gun, there is a quick, humane, inexpensive and effective method of killing a horse that could be realistically and profitably used by slaughter plants? What is it? Why isn’t there a big campaign to pass legislation to require it? [/QUOTE]

Plumcreek, you may want to look at posts #213 and #216 by bjrudq on the last page. He/she was referring to lobbying for better transportation laws, which has been brought up many times on slaughter threads. The point is, both pro and anti have been working on humane transport for years. There are laws now in place, and it has been proven repeatedly (most recently in the Texarkana incident) that these laws are not and cannot be enforced.

[3fatponies]

@LarkspurCO;1868492

I wonder whether legislation making abortion illegal includes detailed plans for preventing unwanted pregnancies, medical care for crack babies and premies, caring for orphans, educating and feeding the additional people who will be born, finding work for the unemployed abortionists (ha!)?

Don’t you know that once it’s born, it’s on it’s own? Unless of course, it’s perfect and white, in which case it’s high demand. The rest? Pffft, they’ll have to figure it out for themselves… :eek:

[Plumcreek]

In Colo, supposedly any highway patrol officer can stop me and check to see that I have a brand inspection on my horses in the trailer. My trainer says they have been stopped often (commercial looking trailer). Seems simple to have a card for each slaughter hauler’s trailer stating trailer size and how many horses may be inside, etc. When hauling cattle, there is a government paid brand inspector to check each shipment, and no trailer moves without this being done. Who checks horse shipments?

I did go back and read posts 213 and 215.
Saying that the regulations cannot be inforced because slaughter houses will not regulate their shippers is ludicrous. Who would even think that they would? Goverrnment paid individuals who can pull trucks over and write tickets for monetary fines to haulers need to check the shipments. Time would be better spent writing laws/regulations that the average highway patrol officer can undersand. Who is going to regulate haulers taking horses to Mexico or Canada if slaughter is banned in this country?

Around here, the people currently moving to the country and buying horses, were raised in a subdivision, are frightened of guns, and think owning a gun is irresponsible and unneccessary. Maybe a new job title of professional horse shooter is in the future.

[county]

Haul them to a zoo? Theres a zoo 20 miles from here that a good freind is the director of. She told me if she took every horse someone wanted to give her she’d need about 1000 times more animals then they have to feed the meat to.

Anyone ever notice how if a pro slaughter person gets the slightest of topic they have lots of people whining about it. But when anti slaughter people do you never hear a word from them.

Now were discussing abortion?

[3fatponies]

@county;1868655

Now were discussing abortion?

Geez County, don’t take my sharp stick away! How am I ever going to have fun poking people without it?!? :winkgrin: :lol:

Sorry, I just can’t help pointing out stupid social plans when I see them…

Back to horses!

[county]

So now were going to ban horse slaughter because the slaughter houses don’t regulate the truckers hauling horses. I assume that means we will ban all slaughter of poultry and livestock because those industries also do not regulate the truckers hauling their product?

[War_Admiral]

[QUOTE=county;1868678]
So now were going to ban horse slaughter because the slaughter houses don’t regulate the truckers hauling horses. I assume that means we will ban all slaughter of poultry and livestock because those industries also do not regulate the truckers hauling their product?[/QUOTE]

No, nobody expects them to.

I think the point people are trying to make here is that the feds and the various state govts. have already proven themselves monumentally incapable of enforcing laws already on the books covering humane transport and humane slaughter.

So, let’s get the government OUT of the slaughter business entirely.

Thus freeing up federal resources to be used elsewhere.

[county]

So your going to trust who to try and ensure a safe product? To enforce transport laws? To enforce abuse and neglect laws?

[FairWeather]

Question I’ve never heard anybody answer before. (I usually dont jump into these conversations)

If the slaughter houses/killer auctions are getting rid of unwanted horses and doing “us” a favor, Why does the price of the horses fluctuate so much at the sales?

[county]

Quality same as cars, trucks, land , homes. There not all created equal.

[alysheba]

I believe the ban will force breeders to be more responsible. I have already seen the market for the Arab horse dropping and because of it the Arab breeders I know only bred their most valuable lines this year. One breeder I know left 7 of her 9 mares open because she still has 3 horses left over from last year and won’t send them to auction. Many farms have reduced their breedings and are even selling off their breeding stock.

I’m in favor of creating horse related activities in prisions and creating equestrian programs in public schools. If public schools offered equestrian programs you can bet a large percentage of young America would catch the horse bug and carry it on through their life, creating future horse owners (and COTHers ). It would also create jobs for horse people (instructors, trainers, etc).

I also believe that a lot of horse owners don’t take enough responsibility in making sure ALL their horses are well trained and broke to ride. We have an amazing Arab mare at the rescue, she is BEAUTIFUL! But month after month she sits there…why? Because she is 17 yrs old and never broke to ride. She was a broodmare. Now, if she was 17 yrs old and broke clear, she would have been out of there in a minute. I’ve said it before and I will say it again-BREAK ALL YOUR HORSES TO RIDE!! And keep them ridden on a regular basis so if “life” goes haywire and you have to sell your horses, they will be more marketable. Most rescues don’t have the money to pay trainers to come in and break all the broodmares that come thru. Bless the ones who volunteer to.

[county]

These are all wonderful ideas but how do you force people to do them? I’ve been in the hose business since the mid 60’s and the same things have been said every year and I don’t see it change.

If something like transport laws cannot be changed how do you make individuals change when theres not even any laws to try and make them be " responsable " " train their horses " etc.?

All great ideas on paper but to enforce?

[alysheba]

[QUOTE=county;1868743]
These are all wonderful ideas but how do you force people to do them? I’ve been in the hose business since the mid 60’s and the same things have been said every year and I don’t see it change.

If something like transport laws cannot be changed how do you make individuals change when theres not even any laws to try and make them be " responsable " " train their horses " etc.?

All great ideas on paper but to enforce?[/QUOTE]

Perhaps choose not to do business with breeders who harbor unbroke broodmares.:winkgrin:

Your right, we can’t enforce these things. But that doesn’t mean we can’t teach the principles to the next generation of horse owners. And practice what we preach.

[county]

Thats a choice each person can make as there are many. Myself I have no problem if people breed unbroke mares there used to raise foals. Personally I like breaking mine but its strictly a personal choice to me.

[SuperSTB]

[QUOTE=FairWeather;1868736]
Question I’ve never heard anybody answer before. (I usually dont jump into these conversations)

If the slaughter houses/killer auctions are getting rid of unwanted horses and doing “us” a favor, Why does the price of the horses fluctuate so much at the sales?[/QUOTE]

Because the price of horse meat does not influence the market value of horses overall. They may in certain areas have some impact at some sales.

Kill buyers would have to compete- statistically- on much larger percentages of sales of horses.

[FairWeather]

SuperSTB, i think my point was missed.

My point was that, if these horses were all so “unwanted”, the killers wouldnt be paying 600$ for them.

[jetsmom]

Fairweather- I got your point. I believe that the ONLY reason we have slaughter is because of a demand for horse meat overseas. If the slaughterhouses were here to help with our “overpopulation”, they would be taking the horses for free or charging the sellers in the fall when people are dumping the horses they don’t want to support over the winter.
Instead, the price of horsemeat, and the number slaughtered changes only when the demand for meat changes. Right after the mad cow scares in the UK, more horses were slaughtered and a higher price per pound was paid due to a higher demand.

[gazenna]

hipy, And the people/owners who take horses that are sick,skinny,injured should be questioned by the vet, or someone else with authority and maybe then charged with animal neglect/abuse. Horses dont get in bad shape overnight, and horses that are injured to the point where they are just unloaded at the auction to become someone elses problem is not fair to the horse. People who do that are to cheap to do whats right for their animal so off the poor thing goes and way to often the person that put the poor horse in that situation gets paid for doing so. As far as I am concerned the laws suck, and whoever is in charge to make sure the laws are followed get paid to do a job they suck at…

[LarkspurCO]

County,

I have read most of your posts and don’t understand where you’re coming from.

On the one hand, you opposed HR 503 because it did not contain provisions for the unwanted horses that no longer can be slaughtered, presumably because you’re concerned for their welfare and don’t want to see them abused. You also said (I think) that better laws are needed in the slaughter industry, to improve the conditions and treatment of the animals.

However, you insist that if slaughter is banned, people will not follow the laws regarding cruelty/neglect/illegal transport/owner responsibility, etc. You say these laws are not and will not be enforced.

Why do you think laws to improve the welfare of slaughter horses would be followed and enforced?

I think you are contradicting yourself at every turn.