When slaughter is banned;

[summerhorse]

[QUOTE=Monarch;1874399]
Jetsmom
Thanks for answering my question regarding dog food, so the only reason horses are slaughtered here in the states is for shipping over seas for human consumption? If this law goes into effect we will not slaughter any horses here in the USA for any reason? I just want to make sure I understand this correctly.
I had a friend who had some horses stollen from her farm in 1989 or 1990 I can’t remember exactly which year. Without going through the whole story one of the horses ended up at the Ft. Worth plant. My friend had notified the slaughter house and posted pictures & offered a reward. Ironically because the horse was marked for human consumption it saved his life - they evidently only slaughter 2 days a week for human consumption and the horse had arrived on a day that was not one of those days. One of the workers spotted the horse and they phoned my friend, who went & picked up her horse - the guy there told her she was lucky because the day he arrived if he hadn’t be maked for human consumption he would have gone through and been slaughtered that day. We assumed those horses were for dog food?
Hum… you say they haven’t used horse meat for dog food since the 70’s? I hope you are right.
Unfortunately I am not as optimistic as yourself regarding horses not crossing the borders if horse meat prices go up as you say it is only more of an incentive for someone to bring them across, at least this is my view. I could be wrong, I hope I am. We will have no control over a horses welfare once it crosses the borders into another country.
M[/QUOTE]

Slaughtered horses are NOT used for dog food but even when they were they were not split out by day, dog food vs. people food. The MEAT is separated, good quality human consumption, not so good quality and by products animal consumption. The rest is rendered or disposed of. Animal consumption is now limited to a few zoos (who are free to buy a horse and use a bolt gun or a real gun on it and butcher it out themselves under this bill). As far as I know (unless it has changed) the horse slaughterhouses now don’t work every day. And separation would be by size (drafts not worth as much meat wise) or stallions.

You can write to any national brand of dog and cat food and they will tell you that horse meat is NOT on their menu. (can’t speak for any backyard fly by night brands).

[Shahrazade]

Last I heard, horses ARE still slaughtered for some purpose other than human consumption. I recently helped to rehome a Morgan whose owner had been told to take him to a plant in Nebraska, and the only human consumption plants are in Texas.

[Monarch]

MSP
You have a point regarding if this is no law then what law is one breaking.
I agree with a lot of what you say but I do not believe that having laws and not enforcing them except maybe randomly is of any great benifit.
It seems to me it would be easier to police 3 slaughter houses and make sure the horses are treated in a humane way, than looking at every trailer with horses crossing the border to insure they are going to good homes(?), or not stollen, that is if all are be transported by trailer.

I have owned horses most of my life & I have never sold one to slaughter and there was not a law against this. Having this law is not going to change my view of what I will do with my horses.

Texas use to ban gambling - people didn’t gamble in tx’s they just went to the other states who had gambling.
M

[Sabina]

Reading some of the replies here reinforces my opinion that most of the people advocating legislating vegetarianism by species live in some sort of fantasy life.

Whereby they most gleefully dump their hostilities upon others.

Everything when it dies either decomposes and is eaten by bacteria, or it is processed somehow and its dead body material is either consumed by another animal, bird, fish, (or plant) or it is cremated and its liquids are evaporated and its fuel burnt and released into the atmosphere and the ashes left behind. The immense flapdoodle over whether or not something dead is eaten by a certain animal or human surely has to be one of the most BIZARRE obsessions of our time.

Oh, Lord, please. Save that tomato from slaughter. Er…Consumption. Er…being picked. Let it rot on the vine and I will therefore be more moral and more just.

Now, if your supposed “concern” is with the path to slaughter, as in the tractor trailer bodies are too short or the holding pens too crowded, the shipping distance too far or the killing floor too terrifying, then you have a point. But you flunk when your “concern” does not change these things. You flunk when your “concern” is actually motivated by flashing around gross pictures on the internet of hanging bodies. Any species of animal processed goes thru the hanging body phase. It’s DEAD. Your “concern” also flunks when you insist that there is nothing wrong with those horses being sent to slaughter. That’s not reality. They are either elderly, sick, starved, have a chronic disease, chronic lameness, or have a chronic behavioral problem a lot of times.

You think the rendering truck that comes and picks up your euthanized horse takes the body to a facility that DOES NOT DO the exact same thing, only the body is processed into something else non edible?

What the hell is the difference?

Dead’s dead.

Well, if it’s turned into a “byproduct” it’s a better outcome, right? At least only the rendering company made a buck off of it… or the Shampoo/cosmetics company…everyone else involved can heave a huge sigh of relief, right?

We buried a 90 lb dog this week out in the pasture. My SO dug the hole by hand. It was a large hole. He’s good at it. He’s done it a lot, compared to most people, in the past 30 years. Things get old, things die, or the vet screws up, or the tumors return, or the organs fail. You cannot stop mortality. You cannot legislate against it. I’m not sure if it was legal. Good thing it wasn’t a horse. I know that IS illegal. The horses have to leave in the rendering truck if they cross over.

This piece of crap anti slaughter legislation is akin to stopping the euthanasia of unwanted pets on the rationale that now “other people” will behave “more responsibly”. What a crock. It won’t stop anything. It will prolong animal suffering. Not mine. But certainly someone elses’. Then people can wring their hands and cry “but we certainly didn’t anticipate that outcome, it’s not OUR fault.”

Well, yes it was.

[county]

I also don’t want poor conditions in hauling and slaughter but that goes for cattle , hogs, and all livestock not just horses. But banning eating them is hardly the answer.

QH are over bred? Thats one opinion but thats all it is mines differant. As far as banning slaughter will force people to then be responsable. I know thats one of the anti slaughter positions but even most of those people say thats not going to happen.

[Shahrazade]

@Sabina;1874471

Your “concern” also flunks when you insist that there is nothing wrong with those horses being sent to slaughter. That’s not reality. They are either elderly, sick, starved, have a chronic disease, chronic lameness, or have a chronic behavioral problem a lot of times.

I and the many others on this board with sound, useful horses rescued from slaughter take issue with that notion. There are horses sent there for lameness, illness, or behavioral problems, and I wouldn’t call aged something wrong with them- an aged horse is worth his weight in gold, if you can trust him with your children and the children of your neighbors.

However, the majority going to slaughter are like my boy- perhaps have one, fixable problem, but in definitely salvageable condition with long, useful lives ahead of them. When he was pulled from a load going to a New Holland kill auction, in the middle of a torrential rainstorm, he was sound and three years old. He’s now sound and four years old, though there was a surgery in between- which might not have been necessary had I not had to ship him to CO from PA in a slant load trailer, which dislodged a bone chip. He’s beginning to jump and does several interesting tricks, and is a horse anyone would be proud to own- talented, intelligent, loving, and personable.

[Lora]

[QUOTE=county;1874482]
I also don’t want poor conditions in hauling and slaughter but that goes for cattle , hogs, and all livestock not just horses. But banning eating them is hardly the answer.

QH are over bred? Thats one opinion but thats all it is mines differant.

Yes it is a fact that quarter horses are over-bred. 2003 according to the AQHA - there were more than 2.8 million Quarter Horses, including 474,000 in the state of Texas alone. That represents 40 percent of the total national equine population of 6.9 million estimated by the American Horse Council. The 2003 Thoroughbred population was estimated to be 725,000 by the Jockey Club. The United States Trotting Association - 90,000.

Go to the feedlots - A large number of the horses are quarter horses.

[county]

Like I said Lora thats your opinion doesn’t mean any more then anyone elses.

And not only are alot of horses slaughtered QH’s there the breed most often slaughtered. Since theres more QH’s then any other breed only stands to reason IMO they should be. But what breed do you think should be slaughtered the most?

[MSP]

I guess we have some people who approve of inhuman treatment to horses! A dead horse is a dead horse but …

Let’s treat them humanly in the process. This has nothing to do with MEAT. And you can euthanize your horse any time you want.

Monarch, try enforcing the entire nation! Not three plants! Horses are being abused in transport and in feed lots and many people have been trying to stop it for thirty years.

BTW, you don’t sound so undecided anymore. That was a quick decision!

[Lora]

Yes, no kidding - that is my opinion - when did I say my opinion was worth more than someone else’s??? But the Stats. are fact. I think you just like to argue??

What exactly is your opinion of the horse slaughter issue and the issue of passing a law to make it illegal?

[Ridge_Runner]

@Sabina;1874471

They are either elderly, sick, starved, have a chronic disease, chronic lameness, or have a chronic behavioral problem a lot of times.

.

Another person here with a slaughter rescue that was totally 100% sound and sane. The only reason he was going to slaughter was because he was unbroken and unhandled at 6 years old…he is a BLM mustang adopted by people who were clueless and he nearly paid with his life. To see his pics open this link and scroll to the last horse on the page. His name is Nevada Star:

http://www.rbefarm.com/Rainbows_End_Farm/Colts.html

[Monarch]

MSP
Your response to me is:
“Monarch, try enforcing the entire nation! Not three plants! Horses are being abused in transport and in feed lots and many people have been trying to stop it for thirty years.”
I think you are making my point for me if we can’t enforce what we already have in place how are we going to be able to enforce the law on transporting horses out of this country?
And BTW I have not made my decission yet on this issue as I just don’t see grass on either side of the fence.
M

[SuperSTB]

Monarch- they’ll always be transportation violations with or without a slaughter industry. Enforcement should happen regardless of where a bill stands. One method would be better DMV controls like annual trailer inspections and I would WHOLEHEARTILY support a trailering licensing program for commercial and private drivers who hitch up. But that’s another topic.

I’ve seen some idiots cramming double the capcity in horse trailers. When I was working on a construction project in MA we had a call there was a loose horse on the highway. Apparently the bleepin joe schmoe was trailering 2 horses in a trailer with part of the floor missing and ‘the welds on the ramp failed’- I say that tongue in cheek because it looked like they had long ago failed and the guy just rigged the ramp shut. When the ramp fell off one of the horses slipped under the butt bar. Luckily the horse came out with minor injuries. But makes you want to smack the driver upside the head for being an idiot.

[ProzacPuppy]

To the people who say “Let them eat what they want to eat overseas” -There are places in the world where cannibalism is still practiced. Because it is not done in the US do you then still feel “let them eat what they want to eat”? If you found yourself in the South Pacific being offered such a “delicacy” would you partake? As someone said- Meat is meat.

I wonder what methods of “slaughter” they use?

[nettiemaria2]

Well, I only read the first two posts - so I have NO IDEA what is going on down below - bed time for me. First, I don’t believe that the horses will get shipped to Mexico or Canada (some will I am sure - but not alot), secondly, the United States slaughter houses do not check for microchips (until after they are dead), so why would Mexico or Canada?

[Liberty]

Here is something I received in an email from “The Horse Interactive” website regarding an article in their magazine concerning passage of HR 503. The excerpt reads:

“This bill will negatively impact the health and welfare of horses across the country and offers no solution to the current problem of what to do with horses that are no longer needed or useful to their owners,” said Tom R. Lenz, DVM, MS, AAEP past president and chairman of that group’s Equine Welfare Committee. “Horses processed at USDA-regulated facilities under the supervision of federal veterinarians are treated with dignity and euthanized humanely.”

http://www.thehorse.com/viewarticle.aspx?ID=7590

SO,

Bear in mind that Dr. Lenz is chairman of AAEP’s “Equine Welfare Committee”.

Hasn’t he ever heard of humane euthanization by injection?

Does USDA still regulate horse slaughter facilities? I thought that ended a while back, although the slaughter industry was subsequently allowed to pay USDA for inspection services.

Horses are slaughtered under “supervision of federal veterinarians”? Since when?

Horses being slaughtered are treated with “dignity and euthanized humanely”?

Has Dr. Lenz ever stepped foot into a horse slaughter house?

Is Dr. Lenz completely ignorant of the abusive and inhumane transportation practices inflicted on slaughter-bound horses?

Don’t you love how the act of slaughter is, instead, referred to as “processing”, or more ridiculously, as “euthanizing”?

WTH is up with AAEP?

[Sannois]

You want to see inhumane treatment??

Go look at those pics of big lick TWH pictures in the Poll thread! Christ people, THATS abuse and endless at that!!! I dont like the transportation, And yes there will always be bad kills even with Humane Chemical injection, but its over relativly quick… Not so for those walkers. They endure a life time of pain! all in the name of a so called sport?? Nope dont buy it! The people against the slaughter practice just want to tell people what to do, If I dont like it no one can do it mentality.

[Sonesta]

[QUOTE=Equibrit;1863819]
At the risk of starting a fist fight - I would be more inclined to support responsible and humane laws for the transport and slaughter of animals. What the carcass is eventually used for is immaterial. In my view, an outright ban is pretty irresponsible.[/QUOTE]

This is the absolute truth.

I have not read all this thread and I am sure others may have said the same things, but the sad fact of the matter is that everyone is jumping on the emotional bandwagon of “don’t-slaughter-horses” without much thought at all of what is to become of the carcasses of all these lame, sick, old and unwanted horses that will be left to die in fields. Not to mention considering that slow death by starvation or illness or injury is likely MUCH worse than a quick bolt to the brain.

Now, as a horse lover, I HATE the idea of slaughter. But I do think it serves a purpose. If we would spend all this energy on passing laws that protect the horses during sale and transport to the slaughter houses, we would be doing something good. The horses last hours/days could be in some comfort and dignity.

Having viewed the process in person in Texas, I can tell you that those at the slaughter houses are not heartless pigs and they do try to make the horse’s deaths as painless and quick as possible. Yes, you have instances where the bolt doesn’t kill in the first shot, but I promise you the horse is no longer feeling anything and it takes only a couple of seconds to apply the bolt again.

As for euthanasia being kinder than the bolt, please do talk to a vet (not your own who will likely be hesitant to discuss it with you) about whether the horse dies with no pain. The drugs we use in this country for putting a horse down actually cause the horse to have a major heart attack. HUGE pain, but over quickly. Not much difference.

And, those who have their vet “dispose” of the body…Do you realize that in most states those carcasses are taken out into large fields, covered in lime and left to rot? Or thrown into an open pit, covered in lime and when the pit is full of carcasses, covered over with some dirt? I see no real difference (certainly not to the horse!) between being rendered for meat or being left to rot in an open field. But I certainly don’t think we will have enough of these “disposal” fields for the number of horses sure to need disposal after this bill passes.

[MSP]

[QUOTE=Monarch;1874919]
MSP
Your response to me is:
“Monarch, try enforcing the entire nation! Not three plants! Horses are being abused in transport and in feed lots and many people have been trying to stop it for thirty years.”
I think you are making my point for me if we can’t enforce what we already have in place how are we going to be able to enforce the law on transporting horses out of this country?
And BTW I have not made my decission yet on this issue as I just don’t see grass on either side of the fence.
M[/QUOTE]

If the plants are shut down then anyone shipping horses crammed in double deckers may be a little suspicious! Easier to spot! Maybe even fewer drivers because they don’t want to get caught! Just plan less volume of horses being handled and shipped to slaughter! Feed lot may actually feed and water the horse since now they need to sell them as usable instead of copping an attitude of “well they are going to slaughter anyways” what do they need food and water for!

Bad trainers on the track may not opt to take that horse with a broken leg wrapped with duck tape to kill pen, if there are no kill pens. He will have to have the animal euthanized instead of torturing it!

Just a few examples!

[MSP]

[QUOTE=Sonesta;1875962]
This is the absolute truth.

I have not read all this thread and I am sure others may have said the same things, but the sad fact of the matter is that everyone is jumping on the emotional bandwagon of “don’t-slaughter-horses” without much thought at all of what is to become of the carcasses of all these lame, sick, old and unwanted horses that will be left to die in fields. Not to mention considering that slow death by starvation or illness or injury is likely MUCH worse than a quick bolt to the brain.

Now, as a horse lover, I HATE the idea of slaughter. But I do think it serves a purpose. If we would spend all this energy on passing laws that protect the horses during sale and transport to the slaughter houses, we would be doing something good. The horses last hours/days could be in some comfort and dignity.

Having viewed the process in person in Texas, I can tell you that those at the slaughter houses are not heartless pigs and they do try to make the horse’s deaths as painless and quick as possible. Yes, you have instances where the bolt doesn’t kill in the first shot, but I promise you the horse is no longer feeling anything and it takes only a couple of seconds to apply the bolt again.

As for euthanasia being kinder than the bolt, please do talk to a vet (not your own who will likely be hesitant to discuss it with you) about whether the horse dies with no pain. The drugs we use in this country for putting a horse down actually cause the horse to have a major heart attack. HUGE pain, but over quickly. Not much difference.

And, those who have their vet “dispose” of the body…Do you realize that in most states those carcasses are taken out into large fields, covered in lime and left to rot? Or thrown into an open pit, covered in lime and when the pit is full of carcasses, covered over with some dirt? I see no real difference (certainly not to the horse!) between being rendered for meat or being left to rot in an open field. But I certainly don’t think we will have enough of these “disposal” fields for the number of horses sure to need disposal after this bill passes.[/QUOTE]

No though? Many of us have been thinking about it for thirty some odd years! I think I have a good handle on logic and clear thinking and I have seen dam near every abusive thing you can think of thanks to the slaughter industry and the crap it generates.

What is kinder is to get the meat industry the hell out of the horse industry!