County’s an accessory to crime because he knows of places to cross the border?
I am picturing County standing at the border, jumping in front of a livestock trailer, “citizen’s arrest! citizen’s arrest!” hahahahaha
Forgive me if this has been covered in one of the numerous other threads on the slaughter topic. I was curious to know what the legality of horse slaughter is in Europe. I understand that the slaughterhouses here are owned by Europeans, such as the one in Texas that is owned by a Belgium company. If approximately 90,000 U.S. horses are sent to slaughter each year here, how many are killed in Europe for food?? Are there as many horses in Europe that are meeting the same fate, or are their horses protected in some manner? Does it vary by country? I’m curious if the number of slaughter-bound horses are equal or greater in Europe.
And will horses in the U.S. still be slaughtered for pet food? This bill is aimed at stopping human consumption only, correct?
Found the answer to my own question regarding pet food-
"The horse-slaughter industry is distinct from the rendering business, which turns horse carcasses into products such as paint thinner, soap, or pet food. (In dog food, horse is sometimes labeled “animal by-products.”)
Anti-slaughter advocates say they are not opposed to rendering, because the animals are put down painlessly, usually with a shot of sodium pentobarbital. Because meat from animals killed in this fashion is unfit for human consumption, the horse-meat business employs traditional slaughter methods–the same used for cattle, pigs, and goats."
Really? Making something illegal makes people responsible? So why is there so much child abuse and neglect?
And where did you come up with euthanasia costs coming down? It can cost up to 2K to euthanize and dispose of a horse carcass where I live. It ain’t the shot that is expensive.
No - people won’t pay the consequences. Horses will. People pay fines, get embarrassed or vilified, or get convicted and spend some time in jail with all the comforts of home.
Horses pay the consequences.
I don’t have a problem with slaughter ending in ths US - I have a problem with the fact that there is no safety net for these animals - rescues cannot absorb them all - there are simply not enough homes and no place for them to go. With a dog or cat - you can take them to the shelter - there will be NO option for a horse owner. None. Threats of punishment (that won’t be enforced) - won’t do the horses any favors at all.
Oh well - like I said - it would be political suicide for a politician to vote against this Bill. To them - it’s just another day at the office. In the real world - that vote translates into some real problems that we are not equipped to deal with.
Cammie - just FYI - horses are not used for pet food in the US. In Europe, horses are slaughtered and eaten all the time. It is accepted as a standard practice and the costs for horsemeat are similar to any other meat.
[QUOTE=equinelaundry;1863645]
Silly J Swan, no, they won’t. But owners will have to take responsibility for their actions or lack thereof. Euthanasia costs, based on the “supply & demand” should come down. Everyone, from breeders, vets, owners, sellers will have to make concscience decisions or pay the consequences.[/QUOTE]
Are they slaughtered the same way in Europe as they are here? Or, do they have and use practices that are “correct” for killing a horse…and dont have to shoot a bolt through its head 5 times?
I am all for it being banned in the Us, but, if its not…there needs to be some rules and such made, just like there are in the cow, chickens, etc, slaughter business.
Yes, people need to be held accountable for what they do, but lets face it, thats NOT going to happen everywhere. People need to take responsablity for their animals, but thats not going to happen everywhere.
I am happy about the slaughter bill being passed in the house and I am not in denial that there are/will be problems. But I’ve never been one to sweep my problems under the rug(or send my don’t wants to slaughter). So as a nation of horse owners we will have to face our problems.
How do we get started with better solutions for those excess horses?
- how do we get clinics/vet schools to offer more inexpensive euthanasia?
- can these schools use the bodies for teaching?
- can we get government to help fund euthanasia/cremation/disposal?
- will breeders that mass produce lower quality horses reduce their output because it is not as easy to dump their unwanted young horses?
- can we provide better/more animal control enforcement?
- can we get goverment to help fund santuaries/rescues(we’re going to need a lot more of them)?
We need to start focusing our efforts on solutions. How do we get started?
There is a starting place for everything.
I just saw about 4 mares and foals on a well know west coast rescue feedlot. Moron…that dropped them off should be…
It doesn’t make people more responsible, but it sure makes it easier to help those abused/neglected kids. Can you imagine if it was legal? “Sorry kid. I know you’re hungry and dirty and your mom just beat the cr*p out of you, but there’s no law against it. Now, quit your crying and run along and play like a good kid.”
Where do you live that it costs $2,000?
I respectfully disagree with you on this, JSwan.
Here having the vet to come out to my farm and do it, then have removal professionally done cost me a little under $300. The nearest rendering plant is actually in another state, so that price would be less if I wasn’t so far from it. Not making that number up…it’s what it actually cost me a few months ago to put down my poor old QH mare.
If you own a backhoe and a gun, the costs could be a few bucks worth of diesel fuel it’ll take to dig that hole.
If you don’t know how to use a gun, this same livestock service can do it for you at your location or theirs… then you don’t have a vet fee. And you can still decide between burial or removal.
I don’t buy the excuse that it’s too “expensive” to put a horse down humanely; this just as much a part of horse ownership as purchase price and hay. What if your horse founders/colics badly tomorrow & won’t recover? Is it OK to sell him to the feedlot… maybe he’ll be alive long enough to sell him for meat? If he dies before he can be dumped at a feedlot, is it ok not to bury/remove the carcass because the owner finds it too “expensive”? When does the lack of owner responsibility end?
[QUOTE=county;1863675]
I think so many people get hung up on the hauling costs they forget Can and Mex border the U.S. its a whole lot closer to haul a horse from here in Mn. to Can then to Tx. Same goes for places like Az. going to Mex.
And as I’ve said before you want to haul a load of livestock into Can. come on up I know of at least a dozen places to go across thats not monitored.[/QUOTE]
So if slaughter is banned, you said that you would stop rescueing horses because you couldn’t be guarenteed of getting some money back. Why don’t you keep rescueing and just cross over to Canada and sell them to slaughter there, since it is so easy?
Sorry but it ain’t the shot that’s expensive - you got that right JSWAN…
That was the LEAST of my expense in putting down my injured horse - the backhoe operator robbed me of almost 800.00 plus the burial license and a lost day’s pay -
altogether - almost 1,000 for putting down my horse. I did it because it needed to be done, but not everyone has that kind of money just sitting around waiting for a horse to be put down.
Sorry but around here, the best a horse can hope for is an owner like me - the worst - left to “live or die” in the back field and a bag of lime if he don’t make it.
That’s the truth of the situation!
At the risk of starting a fist fight - I would be more inclined to support responsible and humane laws for the transport and slaughter of animals. What the carcass is eventually used for is immaterial. In my view, an outright ban is pretty irresponsible.
Why don’t I cross the border and sell them? because it will be against the law. And I’m accesory to a crime? Which one?
That’s the problem, MayS. Folks can only relate to what the situation is in THEIR part of the world.
I recently spent 200$ having a PYGMY GOAT euthanized - and I buried her on my own farm. I live in Virginia - Fauquier County. Just because it might cost you less where you live- does not mean that is the case all over the country.
I am not using costs of euthanasia to justify sending a horse to slaughter - but I do ask that people THINK about what other people might be dealing with - what struggles or difficult decisions they may have to make - where those people might live, how much access they have to certain services, what business challenges they face, etc.
The laws and regulations regarding slaughter are pretty much the same for every species of animal slaughtered in the US. The abuses and violations of those laws and regs occur to EACH species - not just horses.
While everyone has their knickers in a twist and their hankies out over the horses - they are ignoring the big picture - that we really need to focus on overall improvment in livestock handling and slaughter practices.
I feel the slaughter ban argument detracts from the larger issue.
And yes, in many parts of this state the total cost of end of life can be EXTREMELY expensive. Not everyone has a backhoe, not every jurisdiction allows burial of carcasses, not every euthanasia is conveniently scheduled to avoid emergency fees, hospital trips, etc.
[QUOTE=MayS;1863788]
Where do you live that it costs $2,000?
I respectfully disagree with you on this, JSwan.
Here having the vet to come out to my farm and do it, then have removal professionally done cost me a little under $300. The nearest rendering plant is actually in another state, so that price would be less if I wasn’t so far from it. Not making that number up…it’s what it actually cost me a few months ago to put down my poor old QH mare.
If you own a backhoe and a gun, the costs could be a few bucks worth of diesel fuel it’ll take to dig that hole.
If you don’t know how to use a gun, this same livestock service can do it for you at your location or theirs… then you don’t have a vet fee. And you can still decide between burial or removal.
I don’t buy the excuse that it’s too “expensive” to put a horse down humanely; this just as much a part of horse ownership as purchase price and hay. What if your horse founders/colics badly tomorrow & won’t recover? Is it OK to sell him to the feedlot… maybe he’ll be alive long enough to sell him for meat? If he dies before he can be dumped at a feedlot, is it ok not to bury/remove the carcass because the owner finds it too “expensive”? When does the lack of owner responsibility end?[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=J Swan;1863740]
Really? Making something illegal makes people responsible? So why is there so much child abuse and neglect?
And where did you come up with euthanasia costs coming down? It can cost up to 2K to euthanize and dispose of a horse carcass where I live. It ain’t the shot that is expensive.
No - people won’t pay the consequences. Horses will. People pay fines, get embarrassed or vilified, or get convicted and spend some time in jail with all the comforts of home.
Horses pay the consequences.
I don’t have a problem with slaughter ending in ths US - I have a problem with the fact that there is no safety net for these animals - rescues cannot absorb them all - there are simply not enough homes and no place for them to go. With a dog or cat - you can take them to the shelter - there will be NO option for a horse owner. None. Threats of punishment (that won’t be enforced) - won’t do the horses any favors at all.
Oh well - like I said - it would be political suicide for a politician to vote against this Bill. To them - it’s just another day at the office. In the real world - that vote translates into some real problems that we are not equipped to deal with.
Cammie - just FYI - horses are not used for pet food in the US. In Europe, horses are slaughtered and eaten all the time. It is accepted as a standard practice and the costs for horsemeat are similar to any other meat.[/QUOTE]
Obviously 100+ don’t care about political suicide. 
And yes, we are equipped with the forces to deal with the real problems. It is a joint effort, just as ending child abuse is, poverty, health insurance and any other number of issues.
If a threat of punishment is not taken seriously then those cases will have to be dealt with on an individual basis. Again, it comes down to laws and those who are willing to go the distance. Don’t think your community/state animal cruelty laws are good enough? Help to change them. Are they good but not enforced? Demand that they are. Horse suffering and the tax payers have to pay the cost of housing? Demand that the prosecutor collects all fines. Honestly, if lawmakers would enforce the law the consequences of breaking them would soon make it too risky to break them.
The safety net is YOU. It is also me. It’s also the community. This is a man-made problem and must be dealt with just like any other unpleasantness.
It’s silly to think that euthanasia price wouldn’t come down since everything is based on supply & demand. I’m sorry you had to pay $200 to euthanize your goat this summer but you chose to have the goat and the responsibility that comes with it. You knew the goat was in distress and you did have the option of a quicker death by your hand so the goat wouldn’t suffer for, if I remember correctly, 2+ hours. Now you have to decide what end will come for your other goats when the time comes. If you can’t afford it, rehome.
[QUOTE=county;1863820]
Why don’t I cross the border and sell them? because it will be against the law.[/QUOTE]
Exactly!!!
Most people who currently sell to slaughter are law abiding citizens. If it becomes illegal to slaughter or transport for slaughter (out of the country), most people WILL NOT do that. THey are not suddenly going to be willing to become criminals. Yet, the pro-slaughter side wants everyone to believe that all 90,000 horses will be taken out of the country or left to starve.
There may be a few people who will transport out of the country illegally, but I’d rather risk a couple of hundred/ or thousand horses being killed out of the country, than GUARANTEE that 90,000 will be slaughtered. If the goal of a 90% successful first time hit ratio applies, that means that 9000 horses will not be insensible after the first hit…AND THAT IS IF THEY MEET THAT 90% GOAL. I doubt even 9000 horses would be illegally crossed into CA/MX, but if they did, and say they only have a 80% clean kill ratio , then that is only 1800 horses that have to be hit twice. I think most horses would rather risk a few being transported illegally, than guarenteeing certain death for 90,000.
And what about that horse meat?
On a related note, I always wonder why it is that this horse meat is desirable? The meat from our horses is not at all like beef or chicken or other livestock that is raised for the sole purpose of human consumption. Horses that live as pets and companions in the U.S. that sadly end up in slaughterhouses have been fed any number of supplements, given any number of vaccines, de-wormers, have been fed any number of different feeds with any number of additives… A horse’s intake is not regulated like that of commercially raised livestock. I don’t understand why anyone would want to eat it in the first place? Is it even safe or healthy? :no:
The pro slaughter side wants people to beleive all 90,000 horses will starve or be hauled out of country? Where did you see that at I think your making things up as you go.
What do we give horses that cattle don’t get? I know both species here get the same supplements, wormers, and medicines.
As I have already said - it ain’t the shot that is expensive, my dear. If my vet cuts me a break on the shot - there are always other costs.
And the goats were rescues. Like many people - we do the best we can with what we have. Yes - next time I’ll just use a firearm - though I did not have a problem with paying the 200$ for euthanasia - Koza’s death was used to illustrate that costs of euthanasia can be expensive in many parts of the country.
At the risk of repeating myself - it ain’t the shot that’s costly.
I for one would like to know the economic model used to predict that costs will come down. Did Brookings perform a study?
[QUOTE=equinelaundry;1863833]
Obviously 100+ don’t care about political suicide. other unpleasantness.
It’s silly to think that euthanasia price wouldn’t come down since everything is based on supply & demand. I’m sorry you had to pay $200 to euthanize your goat this summer but you chose to have the goat and the responsibility that comes with it. You knew the goat was in distress and you did have the option of a quicker death by your hand so the goat wouldn’t suffer for, if I remember correctly, 2+ hours. Now you have to decide what end will come for your other goats when the time comes. If you can’t afford it, rehome.[/QUOTE]
I guess this would be a bad time to let you know how much pus is legally allowed to be in milk.
[QUOTE=duecavalle;1863848]
On a related note, I always wonder why it is that this horse meat is desirable? The meat from our horses is not at all like beef or chicken or other livestock that is raised for the sole purpose of human consumption. Horses that live as pets and companions in the U.S. that sadly end up in slaughterhouses have been fed any number of supplements, given any number of vaccines, de-wormers, have been fed any number of different feeds with any number of additives… A horse’s intake is not regulated like that of commercially raised livestock. I don’t understand why anyone would want to eat it in the first place? Is it even safe or healthy? :no:[/QUOTE]
Go ahead and tell me, I hate milk.
And fwiw, I’m anti-anti-slaughter.
