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When slaughter is banned;

Off Course
#81

[QUOTE=SLW;1864663]
AQHA states it’s position and why in several publications, including the July/Aug 06 Americas Horse, pg. 14. They take no position on the consumption of horse meat, outside their scope. They do state that “by allowing animal rights activist to determine how we manage our horses opens the door to letting them put limits on what we can or cannot do with our horses”. They have activily supported legislation to ensure safe and humane transport to the 3 Federal plants along w/ guidelines as to how the horses must be treated. They have also donated milions upon millions of dollars for equine reserach, which benefits all horses.

Here is more from AQHA www.aqha.com/association/who/unwantedhorses.html

Hope this answers your question, and more importantly, provides the facts in this debate.[/QUOTE]

Yep, there is the key…“animal rights”. Nice little spin to cover up the welfare of animals by cloaking it with a PETA mentality.:rolleyes:

As an owner of an American Quarter Horse, but non-supporter, I would hope they support research other than reproduction.:yes:

#82

I don’t think animals going to slaughtered are being discarded at all people have been eating them saince the dawn of time. I think theres no excuse to abuse them but slaughter is as american as apple pie like it or not its a fact.

#83

I never used the word UNWANTED. You did. I simply said that if there were millions of homes sitting in wait for that perfect little pony, then people would be at the auctions snapping them up like hot cakes. But that is NOT the case. I’ve been to auctions where the kill buyers raked in everything they could because NOBODY bid on the horses otherwise! Or if they did, it was a half-hearted, 100 buck bid - kill buyer outbids and the person says screw it - not worth it.

Sure - I WANT a gorgeous pasture full of 25 horses but there’s no way I can keep more than I currently have. I don’t have the acreage or the funds to support more horses. So that doesn’t mean I don’t WANT more horses - it means that I am being realistic about what I can and cannot care for. As any responsible adult would do.

Most slaughter horses sell for anywhere from 100-400 dollars. So are you telling me that people right now do not buy these 400 dollar horses because they CANNOT AFFORD it?? And if the meat buyers magically disapear that people will suddenly be able to buy 2 or 3 horses for 100 a piece instead?

So…how exactly do you think these destitute people buying the cute ponies are going to pay the vet bills? The farrier? The training? The board? The hay? The fencing?

If you cannot afford to buy a horse at meat price right now, then you CANNOT afford to own a horse - PERIOD!

Sorry - but I can just see the big picture. Mommy and Daddy buy a cute pony for Suzie at the auction barn for 100 bucks and Cute Pony then goes on to be ignorantly neglected in the back yard while Suzie gets boyfriends and her first car. Cute Pony doesn’t have proper foot care or vet work or feed. I see them ALL THE TIME around here. Just 5 minutes up the road from my farm is a bunch of idiots who have a grey Arab fenced in broken down barbed wire - along the main highway. The losers dump their GARBAGE in a big pile in the middle of his paddock and they burn it there. The pile consists of bottles, cans, big hunks of metal and other unburnables, and then a pile of ash about 3 feet deep. The horse has a tree under which he stands and he drinks out of an old bathtub tipped half on its side. I called the Humane Association on this place but they told me the horse was in decent flesh, and had a food and water source so they couldn’t/wouldn’t do anything. So there ya go. Do you want a million auction horses living out their lives in conditions like this because they have to go SOMEWHERE. And when you sell a horse for 50 bucks or 100 bucks or even 500 bucks, there is a very good chance it will NOT end up in a home such as you or I would provide for it!

It would be far better for these animals if they were humanely euthanized by lethal injection than to live out their lives suffering at the hands of ignorant or severly poor people who cannot or will not care of them properly.

I am not pro-slaughter. Let me get that real clear. But you can’t just ban slaughter with NO other good plan in place! That’s absolute stupidity.

#84

Yes ma’am, they make absolutely no attempt to deny it. Here’s their latest press release on how “disappointed” they are will the passage of the bill… :mad:

Now, I was only ever an AQHA member for about 4 years b/c I was catch-riding on that circuit and had to be.

But if I were a member right now, I’d very soon not be.

#85

YES YES YESSSSSS! You are my hero! I get sick and damned tired of reading these anti-HORSE slaughter threads but nobody gives two shits about the cow that they eat for dinner. Or the turkey or the chicken or the lamb. They only care about horses because horses are cute pets. People need to remember that other animals have the same central nervous system that a horse does. They feel pain and fear just the SAME as a horse does.

It is entirely hypocritical to not care about the suffering their dinner goes through because they’ve been conditioned to eat beef. But they freak out over the horse issue because they have NOT been conditioned to eat horse meat.

I know a woman who was raised in Europe and thinks it is perfectly normal and acceptable to eat horse meat. That’s fine. I have no problem with that either. But she DOES have a problem with the way horses, and other animals are slaughtered. There needs to be more control of what happens on the slaughter line. Banning slaughter does not fix any problems at all. NONE.

#86

I’m proud to be a member of the AQHA and feel they have done more and donated more money for horse welfare then any other group. To paint it black and white that there terrable because there not anti slaughter is well for lack of a better word just a little dense IMO. I’ve rehabbed and rescued alot of animals over the decades and some people think I’m terrable because I’m pro slaughter. Some have told me the animals would be better left to abuse. There dense also IMO

#87

Two Simple - you outline many of the problems with a slaughter ban. Absolutely no effort or thought was given to any consequences - just ban it and let the chips fall where they may.

On the backs of rescues, local animal control, etc. Where is the least amount of money and the greatest need for help - and little to no help will be forthcoming.

[QUOTE=Two Simple;1864707]
I never used the word UNWANTED. You did. I simply said that if there were millions of homes sitting in wait for that perfect little pony, then people would be at the auctions snapping them up like hot cakes. But that is NOT the case. I’ve been to auctions where the kill buyers raked in everything they could because NOBODY bid on the horses otherwise! Or if they did, it was a half-hearted, 100 buck bid - kill buyer outbids and the person says screw it - not worth it.

Sure - I WANT a gorgeous pasture full of 25 horses but there’s no way I can keep more than I currently have. I don’t have the acreage or the funds to support more horses. So that doesn’t mean I don’t WANT more horses - it means that I am being realistic about what I can and cannot care for. As any responsible adult would do.

Most slaughter horses sell for anywhere from 100-400 dollars. So are you telling me that people right now do not buy these 400 dollar horses because they CANNOT AFFORD it?? And if the meat buyers magically disapear that people will suddenly be able to buy 2 or 3 horses for 100 a piece instead?

So…how exactly do you think these destitute people buying the cute ponies are going to pay the vet bills? The farrier? The training? The board? The hay? The fencing?

If you cannot afford to buy a horse at meat price right now, then you CANNOT afford to own a horse - PERIOD!

Sorry - but I can just see the big picture. Mommy and Daddy buy a cute pony for Suzie at the auction barn for 100 bucks and Cute Pony then goes on to be ignorantly neglected in the back yard while Suzie gets boyfriends and her first car. Cute Pony doesn’t have proper foot care or vet work or feed. I see them ALL THE TIME around here. Just 5 minutes up the road from my farm is a bunch of idiots who have a grey Arab fenced in broken down barbed wire - along the main highway. The losers dump their GARBAGE in a big pile in the middle of his paddock and they burn it there. The pile consists of bottles, cans, big hunks of metal and other unburnables, and then a pile of ash about 3 feet deep. The horse has a tree under which he stands and he drinks out of an old bathtub tipped half on its side. I called the Humane Association on this place but they told me the horse was in decent flesh, and had a food and water source so they couldn’t/wouldn’t do anything. So there ya go. Do you want a million auction horses living out their lives in conditions like this because they have to go SOMEWHERE. And when you sell a horse for 50 bucks or 100 bucks or even 500 bucks, there is a very good chance it will NOT end up in a home such as you or I would provide for it!

It would be far better for these animals if they were humanely euthanized by lethal injection than to live out their lives suffering at the hands of ignorant or severly poor people who cannot or will not care of them properly.

I am not pro-slaughter. Let me get that real clear. But you can’t just ban slaughter with NO other good plan in place! That’s absolute stupidity.[/QUOTE]

#88

The American Veterinary Medicine Association is against the slaughter ban:

Although the supporters of H.R. 503 are well-intentioned, veterinary science supports the form of euthanasia performed at these plants, and on-site veterinarian supervision in each plant assures that the Humane Handling Act and Humane Slaughter Act are followed.

“The legislation does not address the financial support required to care for the horses given up by their owners,” says Dr. Beaver. “The legislation also does not address the disposal of more than 90,000 horse carcasses if horse slaughter is banned.”

An interesting editorial on the National Cattlemen’s Beef Association website can be found here:

… Stories are told about horses being stolen, abused, and mistreated during transport to slaughter. But we already have laws against these practices that cover all horses, not just those destined for processing. We can deal with mistreatment of horses under laws already on the books, without passing a horse slaughter ban.

…

But the most compelling reason for cattlemen to oppose H.R. 503 is that it sets a drastic and dangerous precedent for regulating animal agriculture. The bill basically says that you can follow all regulations to the letter in terms of humane treatment, transport, and processing, but we’re still going to ban horse slaughter simply because some people find the practice disturbing. If we allow that to happen, what’s next? If we let our likes and dislikes determine animals’ eligibility for slaughter, production agriculture is in really big trouble. …

Finally, here is a “lobbying” sort of website, opposed to this bill, and it contains a long list of supporting organisations. Among them are many breed associations (primarily QH and stock types), horsemen’s councils, and farm bureaus. They have reasons that aren’t to be taken lightly, IMO.

#89

[QUOTE=J Swan;1864739]
Two Simple - you outline many of the problems with a slaughter ban. Absolutely no effort or thought was given to any consequences - just ban it and let the chips fall where they may.

On the backs of rescues, local animal control, etc. Where is the least amount of money and the greatest need for help - and little to no help will be forthcoming.[/QUOTE]

Sorry, JSwan, I’m not buying it.

The bottom line is that it’s LESS EXPENSIVE to the government and the taxpayer to ban slaughter completely in this country than it would be to try to police it. The USDA already “tries” to police it, and as can demonstrably be seen, they’re not doing a great job. So if they can’t police it, our only remaining alternative is to get rid of it.

I’m also not buying “ohhh rescues and local animal control will have to absorb these horses”. Let’s recall, please, that the number of horses sent to slaughter in this country USED TO BE 350,000 a year. Hmmm, where did THEY all go?

I’m a private horse owner, not a 501©(3). I rescued Avery at a feedlot auction 6 years ago. He wants for nothing. I have never ever EVER put my hand out to the feds or to any 501©(3) to ask for one thin dime. In fact, even though he’s not rideable or showable, he still finds a way to give BACK to the rescue community by selling his paintings, which, BTW, usually go for about $300 at the rescue auctions.

I’d say that my ONE rescue horse contributes back to the local economy at the rate of about $25k a year. It all goes to small local businesses: boarding barns, vets, farriers, hay suppliers, shavings suppliers, tack shops.

Multiply that by, let’s say, 80,000 of the present 89,000 at-risk horses (we’ll assume the other 9,000 are either humanely euthanized or shipped to Canada - I’ve never denied that’ll happen), and it starts to look like not exactly chump change.

#90

You’re right J Swan. The problem is, people put too much human emotion into this and you just can’t. Logic tells you that if 500k horses are slaughtered every year, and slaughter is banned, 500k horses will enter the system somehow. Where will they go? Who will buy them? Will rescues be flooded? Somebody has to pay for the euthanasia of the ones who are obviously downed an unable to recover. Somebody has to step up to the plate and increase their horse bills by 2 or 3 fold for rescuing more horeses. Who? The rescues? YOU? ME? Who?

Have any of you thought about ANY of this??? I don’t think you have! Cute pics of Barbaro saying “Would you slaughter this” is stupidity at its finiest. What the hell does that prove? It proves that one family with a boat load of money saved a horse through heroic efforts isntead of giving him eternal rest via lethal injection. Big frickin deal. What does that have to do with horse slaughter??? NOTHING.

Instead we will have hundreds of thousands of horses who need homes every year. So I presume Barbaro’s owners are going to step in and rescue 500k horses every year??? I sure as heck hope so! Because somebody will need to!

#91

County,please give us some examples of AQHA sponsored Rescues,and donations to Welfare orgs.

I have not heard of any …

#92

Neither have I but then I never said they did. I haven’t either but that means nothing.

#93

Quote:
can we get government to help fund euthanasia/cremation/disposal?

I would rather see my tax dollars go to children that go to bed hungry, no housing and the education system. There are priorities.

#94

[QUOTE=county;1864738]
I’m proud to be a member of the AQHA and feel they have done more and donated more money for horse welfare then any other group. To paint it black and white that there terrable because there not anti slaughter is well for lack of a better word just a little dense IMO. I’ve rehabbed and rescued alot of animals over the decades and some people think I’m terrable because I’m pro slaughter. Some have told me the animals would be better left to abuse. There dense also IMO[/QUOTE]

Okay County here we go again? You have made this statement in the past…please tell what exactly has the AQHA done for animal welfare, directly and indirectly and how much money have they spent on direct welfare care of the animals? I want specifics, because I certainly can’t find any. I am a proud non-member of the AQHA.

#95

Jumping into the fray

I’ve done quite a bit of slaughterhouse rescue so I can see both sides of the issue.

  1. Stop breeding everything that has reproductive parts!!! Just because you can, doesn’t mean you should. We’ve seen the problems with dogs & cats being bred “so the kids will see the miracle of birth” and the thousands of unwanted animals. Geld your “boys” and don’t breed your mares unless they are the perfect specimen of their breed.

  2. Be willing to put down an animal when it comes to the end. Don’t just shuffle the horse around “to a good home” if you know that horse won’t have a chance of a normal life. If you can’t find the animal the perfect home, it’s better to put it down than walk into a barn 3 years later and find the horse neglected to a 1 body score. Yes, that actually happened to me. The owner was a vet, too!

  3. Horses fall into a grey area- too big for pet status and too domesticated to be considered just livestock. Don’t sell your horse to someone who doesn’t have a clue how to care for it. Just because Suzie Princess wants the pretty pony, doesn’t mean that you should sell the pony because Daddy-kins can shell out the dough. What happens when Suzie goes to college or gets boy-crazy? My last horse purchase came from that situation. Parents haven’t a clue about horses, kid got into boys and is now away in college. Barn owner did the best she could but she has other horses of her own and in training. While the horse wasn’t neglected, she had no muscle, a 12" mane, covered in rainrot and too-long feet due to the owners not leaving a check for the farrier last time- not a great candidate for a quick sale. BO negotiated a great price for me and was thrilled to see said-mare go to a better home. Make sure the buyer is responsible and knowledgeable enough to care for the horse.

  4. Don’t like the captive bolt procedure? How about some company coming up with a euthanasia solution that humanely puts the horse down but still leaves it edible? Plenty of other cultures have no problem eating animals like cats and dogs. Deer are beautiful but what if hunters donated their kill to homeless shelters or fed starving people in a different country? Over-population leads to starvation of the deer and encourages the spread of diseases. Can we do the same with horsemeat? Surely there is a happy middle ground that could be found.

#96

Excellent post, and one I wholeheartedly agree with. :smiley:

Yet again, the plan is that “someone else” step up. I don’t know about the rest of you, but I forsee a lot of agony ahead while the numbers level out, should slaughter be outlawed. I am not saying that’s right or wrong, because it may simply need to occur, but it’s going to be ugly and hard to watch.

The end result may well be the same, in that people simply refuse to accept responsibility for their obligations, so they choose different avenues. That will, of course, bring up a whole new set of legislation required to stop it, and people who actually do rescue work will be even more overburdened and flooded with horses who have a limited appeal for adoption.

My vote would be public stoning for everyone trying to make poor, overworked “someone else” handle their responsibilities, whether that be for pets, horses or children, but I suspect that would not be well received, either. :winkgrin:

#97

Some great comments, Pandarus, with things to think about. Thanks!

#98

Something that wasn’t lost on some of the non horse journalists out there;

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/09/07/AR2006090701343.html
http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1532672,00.html

This was perceived as a feel good bill that kept lawmakers from doing some of the vital heavy lifting on tough issues like Iraq.

#99

Don’t know of any money the AQHA has given directly to rescues etc. but then I never said they have. They have donated millions over the years to universities for differant reserch projects. For instance years ago when Ivermictin was being developed they gave large grants for reserch of it. Have done the same for other things.

So tell me do you use vets for your animals? There group is also against the ban. Or is it one of those deals you pick and choose to suit your needs?

#100

COunty…Please re-read the your post ,from 15 mins.ago

#84 [URL=“http://chronicleforums.com/Forum/report.php?p=1864738”]
Sep. 8, 2006, 09:28 AM

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Join Date: Aug. 6, 2005
Posts: 2,090

I’m proud to be a member of the AQHA and feel they have done more and donated more money for horse welfare then any other group. To paint it black and white that there terrable because there not anti slaughter is well for lack of a better word just a little dense IMO. I’ve rehabbed and rescued alot of animals over the decades and some people think I’m terrable because I’m pro slaughter. Some have told me the animals would be better left to abuse. There dense also IMO

Quality doesn’t cost it pays.

:eek:

Sep. 8, 2006 09:44 AMcounty

Neither have I but then I never said they did. I haven’t either but that means nothing.

WTF…:confused:

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