When you pass on a lame sales horse, do you tell the seller why?

[Libby2563]

I feel like I’ve started too many threads lately but I tried to search for this and couldn’t find what I was looking for. Perhaps it’s timely anyway since more people may be buying off videos right now. I’m curious about how people think it’s appropriate to respond when you are emailed or messaged a video of a sales horse and see that it is mildly lame or NQR.

I think the answer is probably to MYOB but I do feel bad for the horses (and also, though less so, for the buyers who aren’t getting any further interest and don’t know why; and for the inexperienced buyer who will probably come along eventually).

Does anyone here say something like, “Oh thank you so much for the videos! Lovely horse but I will pass for now because he doesn’t look completely sound to me / she looks a bit short on the left hind / whatever”?

[joiedevie99]

Definite no, unless it’s a friend. People just get angry and fight with you. “Thank you so much, but we’re going to pass.”

If I vet the horse and it fails, I will tell the seller why, and let them talk with the vet.

[Libby2563]

Thanks, @joiedevie99! Was just going to edit to ask whether it matters what your relationship with the seller is. This has now happened twice to me this week and the first one was a total stranger so I said something similar to what you suggested. The second one is a friend of a friend, and my friend told me the seller is super honest and an excellent horseman. In her position I’d want to know, but I too would prefer not to get entangled.

[HJdaydream]

I agree with @joiedevie99 and this is timely because I’m in the market.

When I see a video that looks NQR I just say something generic along the lines of “Thank you, I’ll let me know if I have any other questions” and leave it at that. A video is the very first thing I ask for, so if I don’t like it I just move on.

I definitely wouldn’t want to get into it with a seller. Also, I am not a vet so I don’t exactly have any credibility.

[Scribbler]

@Libby2563

Thanks, @joiedevie99! Was just going to edit to ask whether it matters what your relationship with the seller is. This has now happened twice to me this week and the first one was a total stranger so I said something similar to what you suggested. The second one is a friend of a friend, and my friend told me the seller is super honest and an excellent horseman. In her position I’d want to know, but I too would prefer not to get entangled.

If the horse is NQR there are 4 possibilities (not mutually exclusive).

1. Your eye is wrong.
2. Seller is not an excellent horseman.
3. Seller is not honest.
4. Your friend is wrong about her friend.

I would say nothing. A friend of a friend is not a friend of yours.

Also bear in mind that functionally sound, versus three clear good gaits tracking up evenly, tracking up good, etc., are two different things. I see many horses under saddle that are going NQR, in a subtle way, and I say nothing because if owner, coach, farrier think it’s fine it is none of my business.

[SuzieQNutter]

@Scribbler

If the horse is NQR there are 4 possibilities (not mutually exclusive).

1. Your eye is wrong.
2. Seller is not an excellent horseman.
3. Seller is not honest.
4. Your friend is wrong about her friend.

I would say nothing. A friend of a friend is not a friend of yours.

Also bear in mind that functionally sound, versus three clear good gaits tracking up evenly, tracking up good, etc., are two different things. I see many horses under saddle that are going NQR, in a subtle way, and I say nothing because if owner, coach, farrier think it’s fine it is none of my business.

Or farrier has cut them back a bit far and they are a bit foot sore. Time at your place and a new farrier and they are fine.

[IPEsq]

From a video, no. Just pass and move on.

If I try a horse and I think it’s NQR, I will stop the ride and I may or may not tell the seller exactly why… maybe the agent depending on the situation. Thankfully, I haven’t seen too many NQR ones by the time it gets to that. Most likely will say the horse is not for me or pass on a riding issue that is likely related to whatever is NQR (like lead change problem).

If I vet the horse and there’s an issue on the vetting that makes me pass, I will tell the seller. Might not be a problem for a different buyer, and seller’s vet may have a different opinion, but I’ll tell them whatever it is and that it’s not something I’m comfortable taking on. Can’t say I’ve vetted a clinically lame horse yet though except for the one I just bought who thought it would be fun to pull a shoe and get an abscess the day of the vetting. But I did wait for that to resolve and then finished the exam.

[nu5ha]

Made the mistake once to answer the seller why I was no longer interested, said something along the lines of horse is super nice but she looks not 100% sound to me, hence why I think It will be a misuse of my funds to do a PPE. Oh lord the email I got back basically I was sent to hell and back, being told I dont know what im talking about, I am probably there to waist their time, im also probably a 15 year old child who won’t buy anyhow, you name it I was called that. Will never be doing that again, I actually didn’t answer the email at all as I was shocked and didn’t know what to say, that was 6 years ago ( was not 15 also unfortunately ).

Now I just say thank you for the video will get back to you should I have anymore question.
Should it happen with a friend I now simply say thanx but not really what im looking for, and try not to go into detail should they ask.

[Lunabear1988]

I don’t think I’ve done it from a video but I have asked or pointed out something to the seller when I was riding a horse that felt footsore or lame in anyway. I try to be very tactful and I’ve never had anyone get upset. A few times the seller was not very knowledgeable and seemed thankful to have the information.

Other times I think they very well know that the horse is a little off. Usually they explain it away (oh they get foot sore and are due for a trim .)

[Pally]

When I do the super cheap looking for a project thing I usually do, no. Heck, quite happy if I find one that is sound in that case.

The one time I was looking with a more moderate (still cheap though) budget and, hence, slightly more knowledgeable sellers, it came up. In a trial not video. We were actually pretty interested in the horse, so my mentor and I said something. Seller did have her vet out for a brief examination, but she chose not to pursue further diagnostics and treatment at that time (can’t blame her) and we chose not to purchase (hope she can’t blame us). I like to think there were no hard feelings. She maybe didn’t see it, but was keen enough to understand when we pointed it out. She cared about her horse but wanted to sell, so if nothing else, we may have given her a heads up to what a PPE vet would see.

The answer I guess, then, is… it depends. And you might get it “wrong” and suffer the wrath that nu5ha did. Either way, you didn’t buy the horse, so crisis averted!

[GraceLikeRain]

I did it a bunch. It was received well exactly 1 time but I would do it off of a video or during a test ride. Maybe the seller blows me off but then a second person is brave enough to say the same thing and it sparks the owner to actually look into the issue. I didn’t try to diagnose the problem but just briefly noted what I saw.

The one time it was well-received I actually didn’t feel anything during the test ride but a friend identified something in a video of that ride. Once she pointed it out, I could see something was going on. The seller followed up with me two weeks later saying that a vetting had found something in the leg that I’d noted and she thanked me for saying something.

Another time I passed because of a vetting and the seller followed up multiple times wanting me to give her the findings for free despite not believing that something was found. Horse people.

[Jenerationx]

Never from a video, unless I know a seller well and know they would want to know. Maybe from a PPE, again depends on the seller. Usually dealing with OTTBs for myself or friends, and there are things that are acceptable or workable, and things that aren’t, A little stiff but even is one thing, uneven is a hard pass.

[Guilherme]

No.

Be polite and say that “the horse is lovely but just not quite what I was looking for.” Or words to that effect. The fewer the words the better.

G.

[Obsidian_Fire]

[QUOTE=GraceLikeRain;n10645813

Another time I passed because of a vetting and the seller followed up multiple times wanting me to give her the findings for free despite not believing that something was found. Horse people.
[/QUOTE]

Yup. I had a seller absolutely hound me when vet check showed horse was nowhere near as sound as he should’ve been. Wanted me to release the PPE findings to her and just went on and on about “he couldn’t possibly be” when she was right there during the PPE, it was at her barn!

Another who I didn’t even bother to vet, after a test ride, but owner kept after me about “how great he was and what did I think and did I want him, blah blah blah” until I finally lost my temper and told her just exactly what I thought (the horse needed help) and I didn’t mince words.

Otherwise, no I just keep my mouth shut. Say something neutral “not what I’m looking for”, or “we don’t click”, and move on.

[NaturallyHappy]

@Guilherme

No.

Be polite and say that “the horse is lovely but just not quite what I was looking for.” Or words to that effect. The fewer the words the better.

G.

^^^^ This. Saves a lot of unpleasantness.

[GoodTimes]

I probably wouldn’t from a video, unless they were so obviously lame that I’m thinking “WTF! That horse needs a vet or farrier ASAP, and is this seller blind?”

Two years ago I tried a couple horses for a friend who was living in a different province. I would try them, give her my opinion, then she would fly out to try herself and do a PPE.
I remember trying one for her and it was such a waste of time, and I felt bad for the horse.
First red flag: the trainer put about 4” of padding under the saddle.
Second red flag: Horse is supposed to be a steady eddy, schoolmaster, yet the trainer can barely get the horse to canter. Looks sore, but I can’t quite put a finger on it.
Third red flag: I get on, horse immediately drops his back (I only weigh 120lbs). Pins his ears, and does not want to go forward. Trainer says he’s a little ring sour from lessons.
Fourth red flag: Every time I changed direction he would take a couple very uncomfortable steps as he compensated. Very short canter stride, there was no way he would jump from a long spot.

I rode less than 5 minutes. Seller looked confused when I said I was done. I told her upfront that I would be telling our of province buyer that I felt the horse was sore. Nice horse, and honest. But I doubted it would pass a PPE. Seller didn’t seem upset or angry, she genuinely just seemed to think the horse was sour. I told her that there were probably a couple things going on, said that if it were my horse I’d start with the feet and a saddle fitter.

I thanked her for her time and left. My friend also sent her an email, thanking her for her time. No idea what ever happened to the horse.

[Scribbler]

If it got as far as a PPE, that’s different.

I would assume one wouldn’t do a PPE unless the horse looked totally sound to you and checked all the boxes and there is an agreement to buy pending PPE.

In that case, you start the PPE and then call it off when the vet finds a concern. Your PPE might not get as far as real diagnostics. Or it might proceed to radiographs that find an anomaly that might cause future problems.

I think that if you were backing out of an agreement to buy because of the PPE you do owe an explanation. We found arthritic changes in his hocks etc.

Sometimes buyers do seem to share PPE with sellers, but it’s not required. By that point you have some relationship with the seller.

Communicating the disappointing results of a PPE is very different from telling a seller their horse looks lame in a video. You pretty much have to communicate about the PPE to get out of buying the horse.
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