You have paid training board on the horse you have not bought yet? Or have you paid training board on a horse you already own?
Because they are two VERY different things.
If you have two horses, one in training board one in not training board you do not get free lessons on the horse not in training board just because you pay training board on the other.
Actually, I was paying training board when I didn’t have a horse and was lessoning on trainer’s horse… the idea was that potential horse was being bought to be a project for both of us and would be a good entry into bigger leagues for trainer.
Yeah, that.
Ultimately, it boils down to communicating early & often about money. Which is legit difficult for most of us. In my area, for better or worse, a trainer opens locked doors & adds a layer of legitimacy. In many instances, you won’t get in to look at the best horses without one, unless you’re an unusually skilled AA with the record to back it up.
My teenaged daughter wanted to try jumpers. She found a promising lease prospect. Owners are basically pro level riders & AA in name only & wanted to lease into a pro’s program or to a very skilled AA like themselves. I ran it by the trainer I rode with up until the pandemic. (Daughter lessoned with her for a few months, too.) We had a detailed discussion regarding expectations, fees, etc. Then, I set up a trial ride, and trainer drove out & met us. She deftly asked all the tough questions, coached daughter & pony through a few courses, and gave her (glowing) assessment. I paid her flat rate for her time & did the boring administrative legwork to get the pony to her barn/program. If you ask someone other than my offspring, they’d say I can reasonably coach someone over a 2’-2’6" course. However, I lack the pro legitimacy & wouldn’t be able to get my foot in the door.
Just ask & have it in writing ahead of time.
Yup. You can’t board here without being in the training program. Which I don’t mind, because I want a training program. So anyway, back to my original story. I sold that horse entirely on my own…but the trainer helped me train that horse. Hence, I did feel like she was owed something. I dunno if it should’ve been the full 10%, but again, it wasn’t the hill I wanted to die on.
That’s true about leasing a horse (as per your daughter’s example). Very few people would lease their precious animal without prior research. That’s not the case when buying thought (which this topic is about). You don’t see requirements on the buyers in the professional adds on bigeq, proequest etc. Majority of sellers will happily take your money without asking who you work with.
There are always numerous sale ads on Big Eq specifying “Trainers Only”. Some of those will entertain preliminary inquiries (i.e. “Is the horse still available?”) from an unknown buyer. Others absolutely won’t answer you. It’s often going to be horses on the higher end of the price spectrum, but certainly isn’t limited therein.
I see it as being a lot like selling a house. As a divorced woman with two young kids, selling a 30 acre property with the nearest neighbors 3/4 mile away, I was not entertaining FSBOs. I even turned away a pair of men, supposedly an agent & a client who’d been looking at other properties in the area, who arrived unannounced asking if they could take a look. Same with my horses. I don’t want to deal with the liability of people who have dramatically overestimated their riding ability , are tire kickers just there for a free horsey ride, or who might intentionally or unintentionally injure the horse. And I want to know where the horse is going, vet references, etc.
I basically agree with the consensus here that, absent some prior negotiation, a commission is probably expected and appropriate in this situation.
But I just wanted to take this opportunity to note how much I dislike the commission norm in this business. I wish professionals would operate under a business model where they could support themselves on their core services instead of relying on these occasional jackpots to earn a living. On principle, I don’t like working with someone on the buy side who has a financial incentive to select the most expensive horse possible for me. And this typical 10-15% is extremely high. I also think there is a wide range in capacity or ability among professionals to source a suitable horse or buyer, leading to situations like the OP’s, where leads are generated by the seller directly even if the professional can then offer a lot of helpful services in closing the transaction.
But for most horses I buy or sell myself, I really do want a professional’s opinion and network. I just wish I could pay them an hourly rate for this service, like I do for training and lessons.
This is actually extremely common.
Yes, there are some and always will be (especially when we’re talking about pets) . That’s why I wrote majority of sellers (not US only but also worldwide).
Offtopic:Sorry about your experience, but mad respect for being a divorced mom of 2 and having time for your horses.
Thanks!
I’m bored at work & scrolling down jumper sale ads on Big Eq. So far: 1) “TRAINERS ONLY!!” 2) “Please have your coach/trainer contact me at…” 3) “ONLY SERIOUS TRAINER REQUESTS. Yes, really. Amateurs, juniors, anDrd parents , please pass along to you trainer for inquiry.”
eta: 4) “Serious inquires will be treated nicely” (in Europe) 5) “Serious inquiries only and trainers must accompany students to try.” 6) Serious inquiries by professionals or individuals in a full professional training program. More info, pictures, and videos available by request from a professional."
These are all 5-to-6-figure horses. None of these are “pets” only.
I thought serious inquiries only is a polite way of saying don’t waste my time and is not trainer related?
I hope I’m wrong about the US market but I still think it’s (sadly) a cash is king type of business.
(PS the first 10 jumper adds on proequest don’t mention any such conditions).
When the words “trainer” , “coach” , & “professional” are used multiple times in the same sentence as “serious inquiries”; one could conclude that “serious inquiries” = “inquiries coming from a professional” to a lot of sellers.
It’s ok not to agree with me. I don’t lose sleep over this stuff. 
You were unfamiliar with sellers stipulating that a trainer had to be the main point person for any sale activity. It is very common here, especially in my part of the US, I was bored out of my mind at work & entertained myself surveying sale ads on Big Eq to count how many times I saw such a stipulation.
Might be a uniquely American thing that arose out of our uniquely $$$$$$$ insurance industry/lack of subsidized health care. I belong to a couple UK-based equestrian FB groups. The number of UK ers on the nervous riders group that have sustained incredible injuries in accidents trying horses & are so matter-of-fact about it is telling. Those same injuries could bankrupt an American, and bankrupt the seller of the horse they were trying. Realistically, 90% of horses out there for sale fall into the skill level of 10% of riders. Many of those other 90% of riders don’t know what they don’t know. 50yo Sally, who hasn’t ridden since high school, may think she can ride my GP show jumper. The reality will be different. And potentially injurious to human & horse.
Wait, isn’t the buyer usually asked to sign a liability waver in US before trying the horse in order to avoid a potential lawsuit…I’ve been asked to do it on many occasions in the US (never in Europe, nor in UK, not even when I tried a crazy young bolting mare at W. Funnell’s barn).
You’re probably right…
Absolutely, you would sign a waiver. Doesn’t change much re the likelihood of you as the seller getting sued. At the least, Sally’s health insurance company will likely sue my liabilty insurance company to be compensated for the money they paid out in claims for Sally’s injuries (subrogation).
There’s also a high probability of the ightmare scenario occuring here – Sally suing ME for damages on the basis that I acted with gross negligence by knowingly allowing her, an out of shape 55yo who hadn’t ridden in 30 years, to get on my freaky athletic fireball of a GP jumper. A horse that I as an experienced horseperson knew to be wildly unsuitable for her. There is case law that supports Sally’s argument. And even if we get to court & the judge rules against her, I’ve expended huge amounts of money defending myself, lost money in time off work & the damage to my reputation, and probably worried myself sick over the $1 zillion lawsuit hanging over my head.
That is why many sales here are handled by buyer’s trainer reaching out to professional seller or seller’s trainer. The potential buyer is unknown or unfamiliar & they want as honest a representation of their abilities as humanly possible, to know that the horse will be in a program with someone competent who will keep them on task & help smooth over the rough patches, & some assurance that the trainer will dissuade a completely unsuitable candidate. I mean, I could tell my trainer that Lynn Symansky is selling Donner & I want to go try him. My trainer, who is acquainted with both Lynn & Donner, would inform me in her painfully polite Canadian way, that it was great that I was feeling so ambitious, but I clearly must be smoking crack if I thought I could sit on Donner without silcon full seat breeches, industrial strength velcro, and a catcher on both sides. And so why don’t we look for something else challenging yet fun.
I realize that’s not the way it works in other parts of the world. Health care & liability issues really do impact the way the equine business operates here.
I think the desire of professionals to work with professionals is not really about liability so much as a preference for professionals to work with their peers and avoid the hassle of tire kickers and unsuitable buyers. As someone with a clue, these policies really turn me off. And I do think the rise of digital advertising has forced more professionals to deal with purchasers directly. But it is certainly still common for professionals to refuse to discuss sale horses with amateurs or parents.
Wait, isn’t the buyer usually asked to sign a liability waver in US before trying the horse in order to avoid a potential lawsuit…I’ve been asked to do it on many occasions in the US (never in Europe, nor in UK, not even when I tried a crazy young bolting mare at W. Funnell’s barn)
Waivers generally aren’t a thing in the UK because you can’t sign away liability here, so they don’t indemnify the person asking you to sign one at all.
Ironically, the one time I wasn’t asked to sign a waiver is also the one time I ever got hurt trying a sales horse (who tripped at the trot for no reason, flipped over, and landed on me). This was in April and I’ve had quite a lot of medical care since, including two MRIs. Thank god for health insurance. I’ve been wondering if my insurance company will at some point inquire about the circumstances and pursue subrogation. The seller was profusely apologetic and texted things like, “Please let me know how I can make it up to you.” The lawyer in me wanted to advise him to shut up lest his statements be taken as an admission of liability, lol. Good thing for him I’m not litigious!
Crazy!! I wonder if it’s just that Americans like to sue, American insurance companies like to sue, or just medical costs over here?
IMHO, it’s a combination of our insurance & healthcare system + the UK equestrian culture being far more DIY than it is here in the US. The latter is probably due in part to differing geographical sizes & zoning laws. In the UK, self-catering board is the norm. Barns tend to be nestled near housing developments & owners can run by 2-3x a day. US zoning laws tend to disallow barns in the 'burbs, and people often have to drive 45-60 minutes one way. It takes more effort & intention to find horse opportunities if horses aren’t located right in your neighborhood. So, the route to horses in the US is more likely to involve a trainer & lessons than not. Whereas, in the UK you might just ask around & find a part lease to start.
Honestly? I’m somewhat convinced that despite the new expense on the front-end, enacting single payor healthcare in the US would actually help the economy by lowering the cost of doing business & encouraging entrepreneurial innovation. Among my yoga/wellness biz friends, for example, virtually all have had a situation where worry about risk mitigation held them back from pursuing a new business opportunity. I also know of more than one barn where “horse camp” does not include any riding time
I never have been asked to sign one when trying a horse.
I’m also pretty lax about having people sign when looking at one I have for sale. All I ever hear is they’re not worth the paper they’re written on, so 
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