Thank you everyone for your responses! To give a bit more information…My client is looking for a unicorn. However, she does have the budget to match. A fancy and correctly trained 4th-PSG gelding, pretty and SAFE! Around the ages of 8-12. The problem is, I can find plenty above 16.2…just not that perfect 15.3 to 16.1 hand size. She is extremely petite and has a lovely PRE who is stunning. The problem is the changes. PRE’s can often be difficult with their changes and top riders don’t have the easiest time with him either. His hind legs are just a little slow and I am not sure he will ever have those super seamless changes. He has regularly scored 70% plus in Wellington at 3rd, so he has the quality. No plans to sell either…but she would like an additional horse that can really help her advance in the canter work (Changes, Pir, Half pass zig zags).
HAHAHAHA! Ain’t that the truth! Even selling a 17.1 confirmed PSG horse with the above described ladies… “well he doesn’t FEEL like a FEI horse”. Nope and he won’t until you can ride like an FEI rider. But he just packed your butt round the ring with no complaints while you hung on his mouth and your ass punished his back… but he’s not fancy enough for you 🙄🙄
This won’t help the OP at all but I thought I would share my perspective as a timid amateur with limited talent.
Wanted a fancy WB to replace my off-breed. Bought a fancy WB, unbroke, coming 3-yo who is now 5-yo and has been in professional training from the beginning. Now that I’m riding him I’m glad he’s not the 16.2+ hh I wanted - he’s only 16 hh at most. I don’t think I could handle a bigger horse - those fancy gaits are hard to ride!
I have almost what you want - he’s not confirmed but he will be probably by the end of the coming Florida season. That said I am not sure I could bear to part with him. He is a unicorn in all ways including temperament and trainability. I keep saying I should sell and then I ride him again and I can’t!
It was a pain to find older horses the correct size. A 10yo now was bred when bigger was better. We are seeing that shift to the smaller side again but it’s going to take some time to spread into the upper level horses. My guy is just 8 and a bit of a breeding accident, he is 15.3 with shoes on a long day.
So much depends on how you define “amateur friendly” as not all amateurs are created equal. I ride a beautifully talented, fancy gelding and people assume because I’m amateur that means he’s safe/easy. Nope, there are pros who refuse to swing a leg over his back. I’m perfectly comfortable on him, he just requires a very careful, tactful ride. There are ammies very comfortable on a pro ride, and ammies who should look at a nice 15-18yo former western pleasure horse who needs a new job.
The problem is that the people who NEED the former western pleasure horse are frequently insulted when their trainers steer them this direction and insist on the fancy, big-moving horse they’re not going to be capable of riding without intensive work on themselves. It puts the trainer in the awkward position of trying to find the magical unicorn for their clients and hoping the client isn’t miserable with that choice six months later when they STILL can’t sit that horse’s trot. Ammies need to be realistic about what they’re actually capable of riding, and how much work they’re willing to do if they want to ride something more than they’re currently capable of riding.
THIS ALL DAY!! I have a trainer who knows that at my point in training, I NEED that quiet horse without those huge gaits. I can’t handle a huge mover yet, I only started 8 years ago at age 40. So I need something that is going to be safe, sane and still teach me how to ride without being terrified. I love my little quarter pony, when he is finished he will be gangbusters. I am hoping that a nice 15-15.3 gelding is something I can find, but it’s been tough, as I definitely have a very limited budget since I just bought pony and have him in full training.
:lol::lol: Maybe sellers should start being more honest in their replies.
I got to ride a GP horse once. This was back when I was riding multiple horses everyday. Had a good seat etc etc. Oh my god if the horse was bigger than 16hh I would have died! I was looser in the tack anyway due to his gaits but man I would have popped right off if he was any bigger. :yes:
I was looking on the prospect/green bean end of the spectrum when horse shopping this time last year and while there were plenty of horses advertised in the size range I wanted (14.3-16h), it was difficult to find one that was correctly started (if started), good brain, correct mover (wasn’t looking for extravagant), and strong work ethic (i.e. forward but forward and willing to work rather than forward and tense).
Trying to find that in a 4th/PSG level horse…I expect that would be challenging.
I have two very very close friends in the UK and Netherlands and both would send me videos of awesome looking horses in my budget (even incl. import). I told myself that if I was still looking come spring I’d go abroad. I ended up finding my mare in February (and she is EVERYTHING I wanted and more) so no trip to Europe but if I’m ever horse hunting again I’ll give myself 6 months searching in the US then I’d be Europe bound.
ETA: This is particularly true if I was looking at the middle to higher end of training spectrum - although now that smaller horses are becoming more ‘en vogue’ here in the US then the market might look different down the road when I’m next horse shopping. But for now, the US market feels very thin and widely dispersed for correct, upper level, sensible smaller horses.
Note that I have zero connection to this ad: https://dressage.sporthorsemarket.com/listings/dressage/horses/for-sale/amalias-huub/5801/. There is also a PRE on horses daily horse market, PSG/I-1 PRE 6 figures
I’d imagine that all the ammy-friendly horses either aren’t for sale because their ammys know how hard they are to replace, or they sell within the barn or local community by word of mouth.
And to echo others, ammy-friendly means different things to different people, though it sounds like the OP’s ammy is fairly accomplished so should be able to look at more horse than other ammys would be able to.
Some people seem to think that a small horse automatically equals “good for an ammy” - I think these are probably harder to sell. The GRP who is ammy-sized but tough and hot makes the market for that horse much much smaller.
sent you a PM
There’s a couple ammy’s at my barn looking for unicorns. They have been having a tough time searching too. That being said, maybe OP’s ammy needs to give a little on her parameters if she is truly interested in an upper level horse in a very near future time frame. Maybe try one of the bigger horses (if you haven’t already) and make sure that’s a hard requirement. I am very petite - 5’2" and my 18hh horse is the easiest horse to ride out of my other two that are under 16.3hh (And I don’t look that small on him). So just a thought from personal experience. But if she wants to take time to search, they are out there - it may take months of searching though and it’ll be frustrating.
Heck, I have a horse who is likely to be about to need stall rest and was seriously considering if I could somehow afford to buy your horse, sure if she’s out there someone would want to buy her around here! She is a total bargain!
Thanks! Yeah, I am really puzzled about this market. 😵
My own personal perfect ammie horse has come in the body of an Arabian. I have earned both my bronze and silver on him and did most of the training, I think the search process doesn’t need to be that complicated if more buyers were honest with themselves about the type of horse they can ride proficiently and opening their minds to breeds that have 3 good gaits without the size of a WB.
I’ve seen several wonderful ammy horses sold without ever being marketed because they went before they could be listed. Trainers also try to keep them within their barns when they can.
I consider my youngest amateur friendly because she has such a great brain, but she is still a huge mover, sensitive and requires attentive riding - she gets upset like a dog who has been kicked if I ever overaid her. Better than my older two who overreact by acting out! And I love that sensitivity, especially on days my asthma is bad and I can barely breathe. More effort is not a physical possibility for me some days.
I think a LOT of the good ones sell through word of mouth. Do you have a local network you can tap into?
Yep, I strongly suggest arabians or 1/2 arabians. Nothing crossed with a Frieisan or a DHH for the love of God, many of those make terrible ammy horses because of their gaits and temperaments.
The arab/wb crosses tend to be medium sized with good temperaments and gaits.
I saw a 1/2 arab 1/2 hano for 20k that was confirmed at PSG.
My “unicorn” was a horse I never would have thought to look at and is actually a lot greener than what I was looking for.
Sounds like she’s looking for something very specific so she either needs to have a lot more patience, or adjust her “must have” list a bit. She’s given a 3 inch difference of height, would an inch higher or lower really be that different? Would a 1 or 2 year difference really be a deal breaker if the horse is sane and sound? How about traveling a little farther to look?
”‹”‹”‹”‹
Huh? The Friesian is known for its kind, gentle temperament? And the Arabian is known for being pretty spooky? As a breed - the Arabian is crossed for refinement, not so much for temperament. Having said that, I do know some lovely, sweet Arabians and crosses. And I know a couple of Friesian/Arab crosses that are ideal ammie mounts, with the Friesian cooling off the Arab spookiness, and making the gaits a bit more expressive, but the Arab making a smaller, lighter horse.
And I have a friend who just bought a DHH cross, a youngster, and she is as steady and safe as can be, although I do know the breed is known for being hot - this one is super steady, forward without being scary.
So, not sure I would agree with your assessment - but would say, each horse is an individual. Do some research on what different breeds bring to the table as a baseline, but then realize that every individual is an INDIVIDUAL.
