A plain ole 3’ hunter class 25 years ago equivalent to the hunter class today.
I think someone here said now it’s the lofty big suspension trot versus the once upon a time dandelion cutting trot. Why did that change? Isn’t it based on field hunters.
I know I’m just ranting on to the choir. It just stinks, I love me a good TB, I hate they are discredited so much kn that circuit
AGREE!! Why did it become required that a Hunter go around a course with NO tail swishing, NO expression of personality, NO expression of ANYthing. Just plunk-de-plunk-de-JUMP-de-plunk…
this is what led to LTD - lunged to death. Heaven FORBID a horse actually have a good time on the ring
But her point was that a tb can have a larger step than a wb? Not that tbs winning in the 90s would be/should be winning today? Which is a point that holds up…. Because horses are individual and also how they’re ridden/trained has a lot to do with stride length.
Her point is that saying tbs can’t get down the lines is as incorrect/unfair a generalization as saying all women are terrible drivers.
As @Texarkana said far better than I did above:
“The standard has changed. We don’t want a flat, gallop-like stride anymore. We want a big, suspension-filled canter down the line that covers ground while simultaneously looking borderline slow and lofty, followed by a springy, very round jump”
It isn’t a training issue. If it was, then every top barn would be heading to the local racetrack to pick up TBs. Instead they’re flying to Europe to pick up WBs.
I also never said TBs can’t or don’t or never have a big step. I said the number that do, that can also appear relaxed and slow and ground covering and lofty seems to be a lot less than the average warmblood.
Criteria changes over time in absolutely every area of life.
I understand this…I do. But if hunters keeps tradition-then you’d think they’d keep the tradition of what a field hunter looks like. Lofty round WBs weren’t it
The long, flat stride of a TB covers ground on the track more quickly. Sometimes the TBs that are slow travel w too much suspension, and that can be developed. But again, not every trainer has the skill set to do that.
Anyway. TBs can have a big stride. There may not be many who have the movement desired for the 3’6”+ ring today. I don’t show 3’6” hunters now because I no longer have the budget for it, but that is the subject of many other threads 
I’ve actually always struggled against my natural instinct to ride painfully, sometimes hilariously, slow. “More canter” has been yelled at me since the 90s too
The last TB I showed in the real hunter ring would leave out strides at WEF if I jumped in wrong. Yes there are fewer, but that’s not none. Really maybe the biggest deficit in this country is picking out the horse. Say what you will about Larry Glefke, (I went to post this on his obituary thread but then figured it wasn’t worth bothering, I wasn’t going to change people’s minds and he never cared), but he could look at a horse standing still and tell you what it could do undersaddle. He didn’t need to see it go around in Europe, or buy it out of the winners circle at a horse show. This is how the trainers that went before us could go to the track and pick out a winner off the shed row. I don’t think anyone is left who can do that now. It’s an actual skill, no one took the time to learn it, and now the people are all gone.
Chris Wynne for sure rewards the long, flat galloping stride. There are other judges who will give the edge to the lighter TB looking warmbloods. Frankly, the slow legged, ponderous warmblood is going the way of the dodo because they are not breeding riding elephants for jumping anymore.
I know at least one trainer who prefers a well trained TB for her less experienced riders because “they can deal with the bad distance better”.
I judge some unrated shows. One trainer seems to have a good source. She had a gray TB mare at a show after jumping its first cross rail. Mare went in, jumped around like she had done it her whole life. And she was a very, very good jumper.
Look at the horse in front of you.
Well, this is an entirely unhelpful answer because I can’t recall the details or even where I read it (probably Facebook or linked from Facebook), but I read a fairly cynical, but probably fairly accurate, chronology of the transition from TB to WB in eventing, looking at what drove the changes and how we ended up where we are.
I know it’s shocking to hear 
but his conclusion was that it was all about money.
But really, think about how fads and fashion roll through the horse world, from things like the brand of helmet/breeches/boots you must have, to styles of riding (e.g. crest release), not buying a chestnut horse, insisting on riding horses 17 hands or taller, and so on and so on. Think about the evolution in HUS or halter or reining horses in the QH world.
Do you really think that there has to be some rational, logical reason to explain why hunter judges have developed a preference for WBs?
There is no relation between hunter show discipline and field hunter anymore than there is between western pleasure and an actual ranch horse to ride checking fences or dressage versus a 18th century Calvary horse.
All the competition disciplines are stylized and removed from their 19th century roots.
The only tradition is the one the discipline invents.
No point beating hunters up for that, it’s just how all horse sports have evolved.
Someone help me with this quote I’m about to loosely paraphrase and probably butcher.
Some notable horseman once said thoroughbreds are both our greatest asset and greatest detriment as a country.
We have these amazing, athletic, cast off horses that we all grow up riding. They help us grow as horsemen in a lot of ways, but absolutely stifle us in other ways.
As perfect hunter conformation as I can imagine too
Once the TB racing industry finally finishes collapsing and there are no more free or diet cheap OTTB, the breed will acquire prestige and rarity value again.
Personally, I don’t think there’s anything at all wrong with the double add. It’s a perfectly acceptable life choice.
Someone mentioned TIP, but I’m surprised no one has mentioned Take2. Maybe it’s just the fact I’m in zone 5, but the Take2 divisions fill. You’ll get a couple entries that are really green and figuring out life in the slow lane but usually they’re fairly competitive—those horses are doing the TB hunters and then going in another money division 
I’m grateful WEC finally started attaching prize money to the Take2 divisions. That has made them more appealing to me. Before I’d much rather enter in something where I could get some cash back.
And has anyone googled any of the Take2 thoroughbred winners? They are lovely to look at and win in other divisions too. MVP is the one that comes to mind—that horse won last year and is a type-y, classy hunter to watch go around.
Agree with this! I did the add step on my little TB lease the past few years, but we only showed up to 2’3” so it didn’t change how we placed (which was very well!)
About 15 years ago, I showed an adorable TB in the 2’6” and 3’ hunters and eq. He had to run a bit for the numbers, but did it in a way that was sporty and not rushy—and we placed super appropriately in decent company. He would never place that well now, which makes me sad.
Gorgeous 
Both then and now.
I didn’t realize take 2 were included in most A shows? Maybe I haven’t looked hard enough. The few shows I’ve recognized it, there were barely anyone in it. I’m also in zone 5.
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