Mary - DO POST DO POST! Feel free to email me personally at drdianne_97@yahoo.com
I want to chat more about your breeding, etc. Where did you find a Hal/Perch stallion. WOW!
Yeah, but oh, my gosh do they sound so cute!!!
For those of you who are DYING to know their breeding (the “clyde lights”) but haven’t gotten through ALL the pages on the web site, the ones htey show are either 1/2 miniature and 3/4 Clydesdale or 1/2 Clydesdale and 1/2 Shetland. The breeding stallions the site shows are a VERRRY Clydesdale-looking 11-hand Shetland, a 1/2 Hackney pony and 1/2 Clydesdale, and a full-blooded Clydesdale. Apparently there is at least one more “Stallions” page, but the word to click on wouldn’t do anything. They say that some of the ponies shown are 56 and 58 inches (14 hands and 14.2, but the women holding them absolutely TOWER over them. Given that 14.2 is 4’10, they’ve GOT to be 6’3" or so, OR the ponies are not as advertised.
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><div class=“ip-ubbcode-quote-title”>quote:</div><div class=“ip-ubbcode-quote-content”>Originally posted by MayS:
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><div class=“ip-ubbcode-quote-title”>quote:</div><div class=“ip-ubbcode-quote-content”>A 17 - 18 H horse is just too much. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
For who? 
I happily ride a big belgian who is about 18hh. My riding buddy rides only friesians and they’re in the 17hh range. Not everyone wants a pony or is light enough to sit on a thin-boned light horse. I also love the feathers, the nice size (I’m almost 5’10 myself), and the mellow temperament.
<span class=“ev_code_PINK”>Yes, people love the big ones, but smaller would certainly fit the bill for many. ie, my father has always had draft teams for the farm, with age and arthritis it is getting increasingly harder to harness the big ones. There are the “old style”, but they’re getting harder to find. And a sharp moving team of draft ponies would be a joy to drive for many.</span>
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><div class=“ip-ubbcode-quote-title”>quote:</div><div class=“ip-ubbcode-quote-content”>We all agree, horse-keeping is expensive. Land prices are a premium, and not to mention no farrier wants to shoe full size drafts. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Just because a horse is twice the weight as a little TB or arab doesn’t mean it’ll take twice as much land, food, and work to keep him.
<span class=“ev_code_PINK”>But never the less, they do take up much much more room, pasture and certainly can cause a lot more damage than a smaller horse.</span>
My farrier HAPPILY does my belgian draft’s feet. How well behaved means alot more to a farrier than how big the feet are. A nasty pony can take twice as long. Many of the drafts I meet are “cold” temperament - not hyper, spooky, flighty, or fiesty. I’d far rather deal with a calm 2000lb horse than a flighty OTTB at only 12000 lbs.
<span class=“ev_code_PINK”>Couldn’t agree more with you on that one … most “light” horse farriers are exposed to the backyard drafts who are never worked with etc and can be nasty to shoe/trim and get done like twice a year if they’re lucky. Those horses are often the exception to the rule.</span>
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><div class=“ip-ubbcode-quote-title”>quote:</div><div class=“ip-ubbcode-quote-content”> You have to modify your barns for Clydes, get a bigger trailer and a supesized truck to pull them. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Not! Most barns will fit a draft. Some working drafts spend a great deal of time in standing stalls (don’t know the right word for them?) which are basically just wide enough for the horse to stand there & get to the hay. Those who want full size stalls for drafts can fit them comfortable in about a 12x12 area (alot depends on the owner’s preference). Drafts don’t mind living outside, even in cold weather, so they don’t require being stalled.
<span class=“ev_code_PINK”>We did have to modify our barn for drafts. IDEALLY, 12x12 is only big enough for foals up to approx 2 years IMHO. We do have a draft sized trailer (8’ high by 8’ wide) so that they’re comfortable and I do have a heavy-duty truck, because I want to be able to stop that load safely in the winter etc. Our barn doors, aisles, stall doors etc etc are all wider to accomodate. </span>
Not trying to start an arguement… it’s just that I own & ride a draft and I wanted to correct any misconceptions about them.
I don’t see anything wrong with minature breeds per se, but I have to wonder what the point is of crossing a clyde with a tiny horse and expecting a really usable result in the 1st generation. Clydes are bred with a specific conformation in mind, designed for heavy slow pulling. Ponies and minis have different proportions and were bred for a different purpose. Cross the two and it might look cute from a distance but it might also have really wonky conformation, making the horse an inefficient hitch animal (even for little wagons).
<span class=“ev_code_PINK”>Actually, the belgians were bred for long slow loads. The clydes were always reknowned for a longer stride, more action and for moving loads faster over longer distances … hence the reason I believe they are more ideal to crossing with light horses, rather than a Belgian.</span>
. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
<span class=“ev_code_PINK”>I don’t see the problem in developing a draft pony that looks like a mini-clyde. It’s not new either, there were pictures of 6 horse hitches of them in the Draft Horse Journal eons ago. I would think it difficult to find a matching 6 … but what a sight that would be!</span>
At the point of pony height I tend to think of Welsh Cobs. I go for a more medium height in the 15 hh range. For that I find my draft crosses to be pretty satisfactory.
Jennifer
http://www.draftymanor.com/reba/ (to see my mid-sized Clyde-I call her a cob)
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><div class=“ip-ubbcode-quote-title”>quote:</div><div class=“ip-ubbcode-quote-content”>A 17 - 18 H horse is just too much. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
For who? I happily ride a big belgian who is about 18hh. My riding buddy rides only friesians and they’re in the 17hh range. Not everyone wants a pony or is light enough to sit on a thin-boned light horse. I also love the feathers, the nice size (I’m almost 5’10 myself), and the mellow temperament.
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><div class=“ip-ubbcode-quote-title”>quote:</div><div class=“ip-ubbcode-quote-content”>We all agree, horse-keeping is expensive. Land prices are a premium, and not to mention no farrier wants to shoe full size drafts. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Just because a horse is twice the weight as a little TB or arab doesn’t mean it’ll take twice as much land, food, and work to keep him.
My farrier HAPPILY does my belgian draft’s feet. How well behaved means alot more to a farrier than how big the feet are. A nasty pony can take twice as long. Many of the drafts I meet are “cold” temperament - not hyper, spooky, flighty, or fiesty. I’d far rather deal with a calm 2000lb horse than a flighty OTTB at only 12000 lbs.
Also keep in mind draft feet are often thicker & stronger: less often needing shoes except for the heaviest work, less likely to throw shoe due to thin hoof horn… just plain thick and tough
The reason some farrier decline doing drafts are either (1) the farrier is too cheap to spend the money on the larger tools or (2) theyve never dealt with drafts and are intimidated by the size.
For some odd reason some people are really intimidated by the size of really huge horses.
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><div class=“ip-ubbcode-quote-title”>quote:</div><div class=“ip-ubbcode-quote-content”> You have to modify your barns for Clydes, get a bigger trailer and a supesized truck to pull them. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Not! Most barns will fit a draft. Some working drafts spend a great deal of time in standing stalls (don’t know the right word for them?) which are basically just wide enough for the horse to stand there & get to the hay. Those who want full size stalls for drafts can fit them comfortable in about a 12x12 area (alot depends on the owner’s preference). Drafts don’t mind living outside, even in cold weather, so they don’t require being stalled.
My draft shares the same run-in shed as my QH… not really an oversized or special shed.
My “supersize” trailer is just a larger 2-horse bumperpull trailer, no special ‘draft’ trailer required. There is enough width & head clearance if you look at the bigger ‘warmblood’ type or stock trailers. My “supersize” truck is a Ford Ranger sized vehicle (Mazda b3000). I am well within the towing weight/capacity of the truck & trailer when I take my Belgian places.
Not trying to start an arguement… it’s just that I own & ride a draft and I wanted to correct any misconceptions about them.
I don’t see anything wrong with minature breeds per se, but I have to wonder what the point is of crossing a clyde with a tiny horse and expecting a really usable result in the 1st generation. Clydes are bred with a specific conformation in mind, designed for heavy slow pulling. Ponies and minis have different proportions and were bred for a different purpose. Cross the two and it might look cute from a distance but it might also have really wonky conformation, making the horse an inefficient hitch animal (even for little wagons).
If you want a true draft but don’t want a 18hh horse, there are lots of options. Older belgian and percheron lines were often smaller (look at pics of belgians 100 yrs ago); some of these still are out there. There are also cobs which can be very pretty (eg. “Gypsy vanner” cobs) and well suited for pulling a wagon. Fjords are also very small (some closer to pony in size) but still stocky. No need to shrink down a big draft when there are already beautiful smaller draft horses out there.
I’ve seen some advertised as Clyde-lite on the draftsforsale.com site. You can search just under Clydes, or search by state.
DOn, I got to drive again today! I’m hooked!FYI, this was only lesson #2.
I saw that too! 
I think it was in Atlanta, GA. Just logged on here for the first time, and those “Clyde Lights” have been on my mind. And whaddaya know? – the first thing I see on these forums is your question!
I’d sure like to have at least four of those!.. Of course I’m pony crazy 
– have been all my life. When I win that lottery, 
I’m going over to Scotland and pick up a boatload of Highland ponies too. Meanwhile I’ll just keep on raising my Shetlands and maybe a few pony mules.
Look, I am not advocating a “fad” here. I am not looking to breed for $. I just love drafts, but want “smaller” ones. Not freakishly small minis, just a draft horse in a more manageable size.
A 17 - 18 H horse is just too much.
We all agree, horse-keeping is expensive. Land prices are a premium, and not to mention no farrier wants to shoe full size drafts.
You have to modify your barns for Clydes, get a bigger trailer and a supesized truck to pull them.
I want a team of Clydes on a quarter-pony budget.
Why not?
Actually, there are several of the smaller breeds that have quite a lot of draft type … or were originally designed as “multi-purpose” breeds and the more draft type individuals are still found in the breed as well as a lighter type more suitable for riding.
Fell Ponies come to mind particularly … the 2 I’ve seen in “real life” were quite drafty in look and had quite a lot of feather.
I’ve seen some Haflingers that were quite drafty in type, looked very much like a small Belgian. Here in Kentucky I’ve also seen several that were Belgian/Haflinger crosses and were in the 15 hand range.
Many of the “northern” pony breeds seem to have a drafty look about them in the original type … the original English Shetlands … some of the Fjords, Haflingers, Fell Ponies …
Seems to me if you wanted a “small Clydesdale” type you could find a Hackney Pony mare with the sabino markings, high white stockings and blaze, breed her to a Fell stallion … and get your “small Clydesdale” type.
Actually, if folks just started breeding to the old breed standard, Clydes would be at least 2 hands shorter. When I was but a lass, Shires were considered the largest of the drafts at around 17~ hands. Clydes and other drafts were routinely smaller, then folks started breeding up, under the theory that bigger is better. The old normal size Clyde would probably look like a pony today and no problems with the harnesses and carts.
Oh MayS, don’t get me wrong. I LOFF the big-un’s. I have a WHOLE farm of 17H draft-tb crosses!!!
Sometimes I just get tired of “big”.
I spent a weekend riding at a friends’ Halflinger farm. WHAT FUN!!!
Draft mentality in a pony package. My first exposure. I fell in love! And the fact that her non-horsey husband was thrilled to work with them!!! He could load a team and the carriage all by himself onto their trailer and just go.
Sometimes I just get tired of everything being “supersized”.
I don’t advocate people breeding for mimi-clydes. As pointed out by the website, it took her 13 years to get to the final endpoint. And a quite nice endpoint, too. I am a repro vet and also breed draft-tbs, so I totally get the “first generation” thing.
and I DO advocate “special needs” for large horses. I cringe at the thought of 12 X 12 stalls for the big guys. Mine live out as much as possible (gotta love that easy keeper attitude) in a larger than standard run-in shed for each. I have seen the big guys get stuck in stalls, get cast, fracture hips running through “normal” dutch doors, cracking their heads on trailer ceilings, etc.
Okay, I am hooked. I saw a special on RFD-TV featuring a carriage parade, somewheres down south. A fellow was driving a pair of what appeared to be pony-clydes (maybe 13-14H high). The announcer called them a team of Mini-Clydesdales. Same shape, color, size, as full-grown Clydes, full feathers and all.
Was this just a freakey small team, or does someone breed theses things. I want! I want!
Been thinking all month on how one would go about breeding such a thing! With land prices sky-high, and horse farms ever-shrinking in size, how cool would it be to have mini-draught horses!!!
I am a HUGE fan of Halflingers, someone get me a mini-Clyde!!!
the picture of the filly with girl in the dress is a weanling for EVERYONES! information
Wow…mini-Clydes…who would have thought.
It reminds me (going a bit off-topic here)of the comic Strip “Non Sequiter” by Wiley, which for several months had an on-going story about “Lucy” the miniature Clydesdale and Danae (the little girl who features prominently in the strip). I always thought that the “mini Clyde” thing was a humorous fiction until reading this thread…Who knew??
Rick in VA
I know Chris Davison and have done business with both Lass Tompkins and him. They are straight up honest people and are a pleasure to do businees with. Their word is as good as gold. If they say the horse is a certain height it is that height. There are many ways to make objects appear larger in a picture. There is also height limits at these shows and the Ponies are measured. So to insinuate that Chris or Lass are lying is totally ignorant.
A number of farriers I’ve talked to tell me that their worst injuries were from draft horses. It’s not that the drafts have a different temperament or that the farrier is intimidated. It’s that the size and power of the drat makes his movements much more significant. A spasm-kick from a light horse might hurt or bruise; from a draft, it’ll much more likely break bones. I do know a number of farriers who flat-out refuse to do drafts for any reason.
I knew a Perch who was very unwell and had to be stalled. In the largest stall on that farm (16x16, I think) he got cast frequently. A 12x12 stall isn’t much even for a normal size horse.
You just can’t get around the fact that the larger, heavier horses do have some special needs and some special handling requirements.
I second the request for a link to Briar Patch Farm 
I’m a bit offended by what someone has said in this topic. FREAKISHLY SMALL MINI’S?? I own mini’s so to have someone call them freakish really irritates me.
I think someone on this board breeds them. They are in Fla? I loff them also
