Where to go from here? UPDATE Page 5 : Rode today

[VTHokie]

He has been off the track for 4yrs. Sorry I wasn’t clear on that.
I returned to riding him because that was what the vet and trainer said to do. It definitley worries me and I’ve been keeping it light because of that.
The vet mentioned he does have a long back and that it may be he will just tend to have a sore back more easily. (I may be phrasing this wrong so please don’t flame the vet. )

I would like to have a saddle fitter out and will have to save up for a while to do that but buying a new saddle will be a pretty big deal that I don’t know how long I’ll have to wait for that. Actually I’m not sure what a visit from a saddle fitter would cost (maybe not too bad) but it’s the thought of a new saddle that is mind boggling (I’m actually on my third saddle for the year so far).
I almost feel like I shouldn’t own a horse now because I can’t afford to do these things.
Or at least should have a lower maintenance type horse (I know anything can happen with any horse but for the most part there are horses that aren’t this sensitive, that I could afford to care for.)

[goeslikestink]

a good saddler a proffesional one can alter the saddles you have simple by goining back to the tree and rebuilding it or altering in another area - ie like flocking they are mastercrafts men so will be able to lok and see what needs doing if you have three saddle the take them all when you call him out so might not be the cost of a new saddle but having an old one altered

you say you returning to riding how long since you rode and horse was ridden

check the teeth and bridle making sure bit is in corrrect place as both will cause a horse to buck - and so to if you jab a horse in the gob

[VTHokie]

He had at least two consecutive weeks off and then more days here and there.

His teeth have been checked recently, we have an excellent dentist that visits our farm twice a year from up North.

And it is definitely soreness in the backend (when the vet presses deeply down the back it is sore in the same area every time and he pins his ears and turns around to nip.)

[ddashaq]

Not to knock gel pads, but one of my vets said that they should be used with caution as they can build heat under them and make horses quite sore. In addition to that, they can make an ill- fitting saddle fit even worse. I don’t use one, but the girls in my barn that do swear by them, so I suppose it is all a matter of experience.

[caballus]

Something else to consider is the balance of his hooves - particularly his back hooves. Many times farriers pay attention to the fronts but not so particular with the backs. Its just as important to make sure the back hooves are balanced and leveled according to the individual horse and hoof as it is for the fronts to be correctly trimmed. The back hooves affect the hips, pelvis, back, hocks etc.

[cartera45]

No fan of gel pads myself. If the saddle fits perfectly, they may not do any harm, but if the saddle is less than a perfect fit, they just bottom out and create pressure points. Are you sure your saddle is big enough for you? My saddle fitter told me the most common mistake she sees is women riding in saddles that are way too small. When you trot, if your weight bops up and down on the back end of the saddle rather than the middle, that can sore their backs. The rear gullet may also be too narrow and that can bounce around on their spines. You may want to take pictures of the saddle on with no pad - and ones with you on to get some opinions. As much as saddles cost, that would be the cheapest problem you could have in the long run.

[Jsalem]

It sounds like you’ve done all you can do in terms of treatment. You need to look further.

You might think about x-raying his back to look for kissing spine.

Shock wave therapy works really well on sore backs.

Injecting the back might also be helpful.

[rcloisonne]

[QUOTE=caballus;2047588]
Something else to consider is the balance of his hooves - particularly his back hooves. Many times farriers pay attention to the fronts but not so particular with the backs. Its just as important to make sure the back hooves are balanced and leveled according to the individual horse and hoof as it is for the fronts to be correctly trimmed. The back hooves affect the hips, pelvis, back, hocks etc.[/QUOTE]

I agree with this 100%, especially with a TB. TB’s often have negative plane coffin bones that can cause the problems you’ve mentioned. Can you post pics of his feet taken at ground level?

[VTHokie]

I’ll try to get some pictures of his feet and of him with the saddle on.

[goeslikestink]

good idea

[goodmorning]

How are his stifles? What specific areas is he sore on in his back? And from my own experience, make sure those hind feet are as close to perfect as possible.

Also, you may want to have a Lyme test done. My OTTB who did have weak stifles surprised me and the chiro about a month ago when he was sore on his hock points and a little reactive in his back (full rads taken during PPE less then 6 months ago and saddle fits per chiro & saddle fitter). Then he started hopping around behind, swapping out, and I called the vet. Sure enough he flexed poorly in his hind-end, the vet did a lyme test and it came back very high. Just started him on the doxy, and hopefully just that will do the trick. He also started to loose weight, and has become much more reactive. All little signs that I dismissed

Can I mention that I pulled 3 more ticks off today?!! insert very angry face here

Have you tried lunging him (with and w/o tack) to see how reactive he is?

Please don’t feel like you don’t deserve to own this horse. I sometimes feel like that too, being in college and just scraping by, but if you are working with a vet, a GOOD farrier, trainer, having regular chiro/acu visits, then you are probably doing more then most horse owners. As much as we are lucky to have them, he sounds like he is lucky to have such a concerned owner.

[Adagio]

I’m with the poster above

All the money spent on Chiro, accupunture, trimming, injections etc could be well spent on a overall soundness check and xrays of the offending area. don’t get me wrong they are all great protocols and I’ve used them all, after having gone through the process of trying to identify the source.
Kissing spine may well be your culprit and I have had success with shockwave used on kissing spine. However this is only one of several reasons that may be causing your problems and it’s obviously not something that can be treated with the alternatives you’ve already explored. Otherwise he’d already be on the road to recovery. Could he have injuried his scaroiliac (sp?) - only a vet can tell for sure.
Good luck

[VTHokie]

The exact location of pain would be along the top of the butt more towards the tail on both sides. He also has a pronounced/swollen tail head the chiro/accupucturist said, and he did some thing where he took hold of the tail and leaned back, pulling on the tail. Xpress will swish his tail when he’s hurting and pinning his ears. The chiro thought that there was a good deal of improvement in the stiffness of the back and neck between his first and second visit, and decreased range of motion in the pelvis. But I haven’t noticed that much of a change under saddle. Some, but not much.

So what is a kissing spine? Sounds like vertebrae rubbing together.??

[EqTrainer]

It sounds like you are talking about his SI. Feel free to PM me, you are local.

[VTHokie]

Also he almost always carries his tail a little. See picture below:
http://pets.webshots.com/photo/1131134463046948539QLkRVh

[cartera45]

That doesn’t sound like a saddle fit problem. I didn’t catch that the pain was that far back. I too would consider SI problems. My equine chiropractor says that is a very common issue that she treats. Continued chiro work may help a lot.

[PiedPiper]

Aw shoot I wish you were still up here. I have the perfect guy to fix your boy. Matt had very similar issues and he is now a totally different horse. Hon if you EVER move back up here I know an affordable place that you would love.

Anyway no help I know. Hope things get figured out and let me know if I can help you in any way.

[YankeeTurnedHillbilly]

I would look into trailering your horse to M&M Tack Shop in Raleigh for a saddle fitting appointment with Mary Bowles. That will likely be cheaper than having her come to you (or any saddle fitter really). See if anyone else in your barn wants to have their saddle checked and split the cost of gas.

Also, you made a comment about going through three saddles this year alone? Why have you changed saddles three times? This statement says to me that you are definately dealing with saddle fit issues???

Give a shout if you need/want Mary’s contact info.

[Posting_Trot]

It could be a number of things, or some combination. Particularly if the problem went undiagnosed (or rather you saw it as an attitude problem rather than as a physical problem), it’s likely that there is both the primary issue and then one or more secondary problems.

What that means is that even if you correctly find one thing that is a problem, if you don’t find the others as well, you still won’t have a pain-free horse.

Been there, done that, paid the vet bills.

Things it could be, starting at the bottom and working up:

1. hoof balance; some pictures would be good for the purposes of the forum, but you might also want to post on http://www.horseshoes.com.

2. continuing problems with arthritis beyond the hock area–think hips and shoulders and spine.

3. Chiro problems.

4. Nutritional issues. Is the horse getting a selenium and Vit. E supplement? If you’re living in a selenium deficient area he may need it (ask the vet about drawing blood to check selenium levels). You can safely increase the Vit. E that you give him to at least 10,000 IU per day and see if it helps (for that much Vit. E you’ll have to use a separate Vit. E supplement).

You might also try changing his ration by reducing the grain and increasing the fiber and adding oil if you’re worried about his weight.

5. Lyme disease. It might be worth pulling blood to check for lyme; a persistent sore back as well as some intermittent lameness and changes in attitude are all symptoms of Lyme (but of course they’re also symptoms of other things as well).

Good luck.

[VTHokie]

I have added a link on the first post to pictures of his feet and of the saddle on him.

See first post on Page 1.