My personal experience has been that feet problems often end up showing as roving NQR lameness as the horse compensates. I think that is often why vets overlook the feet as they are looking at the more obvious symptoms that are presenting themselves.
My personal experience has been that feet problems often end up showing as roving NQR lameness as the horse compensates. I think that is often why vets overlook the feet as they are looking at the more obvious symptoms that are presenting themselves.
Hopefully you will get some more definitive answers tomorrow. Jingles for you and your boy.
Still jingling madly for you… and Xpress. :sadsmile:
I do get to pick my guy up tomorrow. And then just sit and wait for the Lyme test to come back… and then go from there.
UPDATE: Xrays are in
I got a call from the vet this evening. Xrays are in and it is a “kissing spine” like several people here thought. They are going to inject his back tomorrow.
He also has a splint that was caused by the suspensory injury. They’re going to do the ultra sound tomorrow on the suspensory. He doesn’t think it’s a tear though. (He’s only lame when flexed).
They also want to inject his hocks again. (They were done 6 months ago for the first time.)
They couldn’t determine what’s wrong with the front feet with the xrays.
He mentioned something about doing blocks tomorrow.
It was alot of info. in a short conversation so I’m a little confused by it all.
;
Dune - His back did light up on the bone scan, apparently not as severely as the front feet and back leg issues.
Oh, what area of the back lit up?
What are they saying about the suspensory? Piper has had more issues with his front feet after the hind suspensory due to compensating on the way he stands.
He is now being treated like a navicular horse, pads in both front, wedge in the one till the angles are better.
I could definitely see where those two issues in the legs could cause back issues. I would think, my laymen diagnosis, that since most issues work their way up the back is a final result from the legs.
Are they recc any treatment for the suspensory, A cell, shockwave, etc?
I am by no means an expert on this!! So this is just by personal opinion and experience.
About 2,5 years ago after 4 years of struggling with a bucking bronco, intermittent front lameness and lots of inconclusive diagnostics.
We X-rayed my TB’s entire spine. I was told that the vertebraes were so close (back of saddle region) and that he had kissing spine. That appeared plausible to me. We then had a full body scan done at the same clinic and there were NO remarkable hot spots on the spine. After lots of conversations with all vets at the clinic, they concluded he did NOT have kissing spine, as KS shows up more clearly on a bone scan. But considering the X-rays showed the narrowing, I was told to go back to lunging, build up correct muscle and always work him in a correct outline, hillwork etc.
His front feet however did show up clearly on the scan, eventhough X-rays didn’t show anything seriously wrong. It was concluded that he had soft tissue damage to his front feet. We blocked him, but as he wasnt’ lame at that time it didn’t show us much.
He had rather flat feet, he was shod in barshoes for a while, kept pulling these off, then went to wedges and is now shod with a regular well set back shoe.
I continued chiropractics for a while longer. She seemed to think the problem was in his neck. My trainer at that time was convinced it was behavioural.
So lots of confusing information.
I also did 6 months of Adequan & Legend combined. But as I didn’t dare getting back on him at that time, I never knew whether it made a difference at all.
I retired him for near enough 2 years, to rest him and guard my safety. And only last week did I decide to get back on him for the first time, because he’d nearly attack me over his stalldoor when I was saddling up the other two. So I figured he was ready for it.
I’ve only been on him 3 times so far and so good. No bucking, no pinned ears, to my utter surprise, a happy & overly keen horse.
All the time he was off, he has been on oral glucosamine, chondroitin, MSM and HA.
Good luck and do look into that kissing spine some more, it surprises me this did not show up more clearly on the scan.
Had the horse still been worked up to the scan? It is of course possible that you get different results on a scan if the horse had several weeks/months of rest prior. I was asked to ride him until he went in for the scan.
If indeed KS, there’s alwasy Tildren, Europe has had quite some good results with that.
Regards and jingles, L.
Lieslot - He was worked very lightly and intermittenly up until the appointment. Practically not at all. They did say that it would possibly affect the scan but he was there and I had paid to have him trailered so we did it.
I am very unclear about a lot of this and plan on taking the 1 1/2 hour drive up to the vet school to meet with the Dr. today. He is suposed to be released tommorrow but I won’t be there when he leaves. Someone else is picking him up since I don’t have a trailer.
Piper - They are ultrasounding the suspensory today. They ran out of time yesterday. It was the hospital’s surgery day and they were extremely busy.
Dune - I don’t know exactly what parts of the back showed up on the bone scan but he mentioned the saddle area for the kissing spine that they saw on the xray. I hope to see the xrays and get all the details today.
VTH,
Update? Been jingling all day.
:sadsmile:
I’d love an explanation of “kissing spine” as well. I have a pony mare that exibits similar symptoms to your guy. We’ve injected hocks, fit her for a proper saddle ( my saddle fitter charged $175 for a barn call) and I just put back shoes on as she was wearing her back feet unevenly. The chiro has said every time he adjusts her that she’s very sore over her sacro…(sp?). He does the tail-pulling treatment, too. The mare has a beautiful floaty trot when you do trot-rising and her canter is fairly balanced, but the minute you switch to sitting trot she gets all pissed off. Her expression changes, she chomps on the bit and shortens up her stride significantly. She can act-up in canter, also. My trainer says the problems between her ears, but she has the nicest disposition in every other way, that’s why I’m inclined to think somethings hurting somewhere.
Aspafan, So how does your trainer explain what the chiro keeps finding?
I swear, it’s like people think horses are devil spawn :rolleyes:
UPDATE AGAIN
Just got home from a visit to the hospital. The vet (resident - not the attending) went over everything with me. I saw the bone scan. The hocks were lit up (they are being injected tonight), and the back of the right hock lit up very dark where the splint and suspensory is. The hocks were lit but not as dark as the splint area. They are going to do the ultrasound of the suspensory area tonight when they inject the hocks. I haven’t heard back as of now.
The front feet issue is navicular.
He showed me the areas of concern and also showed me how the feet are poorly trimmed. He said on the left front one side of the foot is higher than the other and on the other foot the sole is very thin probably from compensating for the left. But both feet do have thin soles and he is “prescribing” some changes for his feet.
The back was injected today in five places. Three spaces in a row (in the middle of where the saddle would sit) were very tight, one of which was touching. He injected those and a space on either side as well.
He said I should plan on a light workout for him in about 3 to 4 days to see how he feels with the injections. If he seems changed and happy again to work then it’s okay to continue on with getting him back to work slowly but if he seems uncomfortable, pins ears/swishes tail, etc. then he should have a month off.
This is pending what they see with the ultrasound but it sounds like they are not concerned about the suspensory. It seems relatively minor, but then again he said he had a degree of lameness of a 3.
I told him I wanted a detailed description of how to bring him back into work and what he recommended for his feet.
Xpress will come home tomorrow morning.
Thanks for all of the jingles and advice.
aspafan - I found these links last night and they were helpful for explaining kissing spine.
http://www.arch.cam.ac.uk/~ml12/ChinPalaeoWebsite/Images-linked/spin-proc.htm
http://www.merckvetmanual.com/mvm/index.jsp?cfile=htm/bc/90793.htm
I will definitley trust my instincts from now on though. I knew something was not right ever since last April but I let everyone else tell me I was overreacting, and he was just being bad or it’s how I’m riding, etc. Never again!
VT-
Always listen to your gut. From what I know of you, you have good horse sense and knowledge. Don’t let others sway you from your initial feelings, they have been right 9 times out of 10.
Good luck with everything. Have they given you any prognosis of his future outcome/limitations? It is sounding like, from what I am reading, that he will be able to continue on doing what you want with him
A good farrier is worth their weight in gold. :yes:
Jingling away! ( and I don’t jingle just for anyone, pretty strict with the jingles. :winkgrin: )
Thanks Piper! Yes, it does seem like he can continue on without limitations at this point. He just said to let Xpress tell me what he’s comfortable with and keep re-evaluating as we go along.
I am switching farriers. I talked to my trainer tonight and she agreed. The other farrier that comes to the barn is better with treating navicular and correcting angles.
VTH,
At least you know what’s going on.
I, too, have learned to listen to my gut.
Still jingling for you. :sadsmile:
Are they going to also xray the hooves? Xrays could really help the farrier determine the correct breakover.
Best of best luck to you & Xpress.
It does read as if there is hope.
And as the vet said the horse himself is your best judgement as to how far you can go!
I’m keeping fingers & toes crossed for you! And let’s hope that in a year’s time from now this was all a bad dream.
Take it easy and enjoy any ride you guys have.
((For example I’ve dropped all expectations with regards to my TB, just the fact I’m sitting on him again and we’re moving both happily means the world to me))
PS: What type of back injections did Xpress get? It wasn’t “mesotherapy”, was it? Just curious as I read somewhere that chronic back pain in a horse was succesfully treated with mesotherapy, but I had never heard of that.
