Whip Use In Derby

[mommy_peanut]

@snaffle1987

that may be the case but they are like solid reeds. I noticed this year with all the upgraded sound around the track for live broadcast, the audible sound of the horses being hit with the whips was clearly visible on a recent live broadcast. Some horses even come back with welts on their sides

Once again you are clearly & rather loudly showing your absolute lack of understanding & knowledge of these things.

[RHdobes563]

@snaffle1987

that may be the case but they are like solid reeds. I noticed this year with all the upgraded sound around the track for live broadcast, the audible sound of the horses being hit with the whips was clearly visible on a recent live broadcast. Some horses even come back with welts on their sides

Could you tell me which broadcast that is? I record nearly everything “horse racing” shown on television and can find practically anything else on YouTube.

[LaurieB]

In this year’s Derby broadcast, the loud slapping sound that was repeatedly heard, was the sound made by the horses galloping through water and mud. It had nothing to do with whips or whipping.

[Mara]

Steve Cauthen switched whip hands from right to left in the '78 Belmont out of necessity, as he couldn’t risk getting taken down if he’d struck Alydar accidentally. Many people credit that swap as the factor that prompted Affirmed to find just enough to get his nose back in front at the wire.

Only the horse knew if that was true, and he never told. I never counted whip strikes, but if the current rule had been in effect then and you asked anyone in Affirmed’s camp if the win would have been worth a fine, I am sure all of them would have said “yes” without hesitation.

[snaffle1987]

I do not recall which one but I believe I was watching a live broadcast of America’s Day at the Races

[snaffle1987]

It wasn’t the derby broadcast.

[snaffle1987]

lets take you out to the track and strike you with that new whip as hard as the jockeys swing and see just how much design does or does not inhibit pain.

While there can be some explanation that whips are used for steering, and they can be and are use in this manner on the track, the majority of hits to horses are not for steering purposes and the strikes used on Sovereignty in the Derby were not for steering purposes.

Not a single person on this page can argue that whip use is one of, if not, the prime controversial issue with the sport aside from breakdowns. It’s the main reason why my extended family will not watch or support horse racing.

[Aussie_2020]

I’ve noticed jockeys will bring the whip forward in a movement that reminds me of when I had a horse I would shake the whip near her shoulder. I found it served the purpose of getting her to be serious about my aids. I never struck her with any whips or even swung a rope at her, she was all about go go go, but for some reason shaking the whip tip by her shoulder made her ‘sit up and listen’. A farrier that also started colts told me to try it with her. Weird how it worked, like I was making a threat I didn’t understand but she did.

I think I remember Borel on RA when he’d twirl the whip.

[LaurieB]

@snaffle1987

lets take you out to the track and strike you with that new whip as hard as the jockeys swing and see just how much design does or does not inhibit pain.

Or…you could go to the track, pick up a racing whip, swing it, slap yourself on the leg with it…and then you would have an informed opinion.

[mommy_peanut]

@snaffle1987

lets take you out to the track and strike you with that new whip as hard as the jockeys swing and see just how much design does or does not inhibit pain.

While there can be some explanation that whips are used for steering, and they can be and are use in this manner on the track, the majority of hits to horses are not for steering purposes and the strikes used on Sovereignty in the Derby were not for steering purposes.

Not a single person on this page can argue that whip use is one of, if not, the prime controversial issue with the sport aside from breakdowns. It’s the main reason why my extended family will not watch or support horse racing.

Why? I already know what they feel like.
Sounds like you may want to go give it a try though

Whips in racing are controversial the same way prongs & e-collars are in dog training.
It’s the uneducated & ignorant that typically have issues with them.
Can the way they’re used be abused… sure, so can a halter or a cotton leadline or a flat collar on a dog.
Doesn’t mean the majority of people are abusing the tools of their trade.

[findeight]

Just a bit of context here…back in the “good old days” jockey who eased a horse or allowed it coast when badly overmatched would have to defend their actions to the stewards to prove they did not throw the race.

Whips were rigid…of course buzzers were more humane and could be dropped into oblivion in the dirt but lost popularity as video quality and capability improved (there is film of jockeys ditching buzzers from not so long ago). Doping was harder to detect or not even tested for) and ringers not unheard of,

Racing has made huge improvements and continues to try to do better. What you think you see in older film footage may not tell the whole story.

[snaffle1987]

I just find it abhorrent in this day in age that we have horse people defending whipping a horse to make it win a race. Not wanting horses to be repeatedly hit to run faster shouldn’t make people labelled “ignorant” either

[Willesdon]

Perception is everything. When people see a jockey raising a whip they assume it is to hit the horse. That is a bad image. The majority of people don’t see or understand that the jockey actually may be waving the whip at the shoulder and never touching the horse. It looks abusive. People don’t understand about official limits on the number of strikes permitted. That isn’t explained on any short clip of a horse winning a race. People don’t know about how the whip is designed to minimise violence to the horse. That takes inside knowledge and most people don’t have that information They just see horses being whipped. People see jockeys whipping the horses and that perception is everything.

There are, of course, horses who stop running when hit with a whip. Can’t say I blame them.

[EventerAJ]

I find whip use in barrel racing much more offensive than TB racehorses. Modern TB whips are essentially small pool noodles. Mostly noise, no pain. Jockeys don’t have long enough stirrups to use their legs; when an event rider sends a horse forward on XC, they apply leg (even spur) and the horse goes. A jockey can’t do that. They have voice, of course, which most horses respond to. But their foam-padded whip IS their lower leg. It is the cue that some horses need to switch gears and go, Now. Maybe the horse just needs to see it, the jockey waves it at the shoulder. I don’t know who came up with the magic number of “6” smacks, but that seems good enough to get the point across to most horses. The rules are written such that the jockey must “Allow the horse to respond” before the next hit.

Compare that to barrel racers, who are star-fish kicking and using a stinging nylon/leather quirt, over/under, or dressage whip even, beating the horse with every stride who is already running flat out (and then has minimal room to stop at the end). It’s no wonder those horses are nutty about going into the ring, they get their ass beat every time they compete, whether they are giving 100% or not.

[Texarkana]

@Willesdon

Perception is everything. When people see a jockey raising a whip they assume it is to hit the horse. That is a bad image. The majority of people don’t see or understand that the jockey actually may be waving the whip at the shoulder and never touching the horse. It looks abusive. People don’t understand about official limits on the number of strikes permitted. That isn’t explained on any short clip of a horse winning a race. People don’t know about how the whip is designed to minimise violence to the horse. That takes inside knowledge and most people don’t have that information They just see horses being whipped . People see jockeys whipping the horses and that perception is everything.

This is another example of the big question:

“Do we give in for the good of public perception or do we continue our practices?”

Personally, I think banning whip use is a safety issue. I know it has been successful in some smaller European countries, but in a country as large as ours with so many different racing circuits, I feel like we would be putting horses and jockeys at risk by removing one of their aides.

But I also agree the public would probably be happier if they didn’t see horses being whipped in any form. We know it’s possible to run whipless with little to no impact on wagering overall.

Yet at the same time, the “public” is mercurial, influenced more by the mob mentality and less by logic and reason. Sure, whips might be today’s problem, but tomorrow it will just be something else… like the perennial favorite that racehorses are “too skinny” because they think they aren’t fed, or any other misconception. There are many times when the public is downright incorrect despite all attempts to educate them. You can’t just give in to what the public wants every time.

It’s tricky.

[Maythehorsebewithme]

Whoa! Fine is now $62,000 and 2 day suspension:

Alvarado Fined $62,000, Suspended for KY Derby Ride

They are not kidding around!

[MHM]

Wow!!

Thanks for the update.

[RHdobes563]

@snaffle1987

I do not recall which one but I believe I was watching a live broadcast of America’s Day at the Races

Could you narrow it down? I might be able to find some races on NYRA and the rest on YouTube. But since they race (usually) from Thursday to Sunday, with 8-12 races possible, it would take quite a bit to cover all of them. Within the last week? Month?

[Maythehorsebewithme]

Also in the article above:

“If stewards had determined Alvarado struck Sovereignty 10 times, HISA rules would have called for Sovereignty’s disqualification from the Derby and even stiffer penalties for Alvarado.”

I can’t imagine being an owner, trainer, or breeder, winning the Derby, and having the horse DQ’d for that reason.

[MHM]

On the Today show this morning, they actually mentioned the jockey’s new, bigger fine and suspension in their weekly round up of news stories.

They also mentioned that the horse is skipping the Preakness.