White breeches in the regular hunter/equitation classes?

[SnicklefritzG]

There are rules and then there are traditions. In the equitation and hunters, even though the rules say that white is acceptable, a lot of people choose to not wear white because they don’t want to look different.

Even though some judges may not actively penalize someone for wearing white, it may call attention to the rider in a way that is not positive.

A rider wearing white in a sea of riders wearing beige is going to stand out. If that rider exhibits a flaw such as a swinging lower leg, heels that aren’t down, etc. it may be more noticeable to the judge. Wearing the same colors as everyone else is like camouflage in a way.

[RAyers]

Fair enough, -snicklefritzg. However, you literally have a judge state she would ignore the rules to place a rider over a better round simply because they “adhered” to tradition. White breeches for men are tradition.

[SnicklefritzG]

@RAyers

Fair enough, -snicklefritzg. However, you literally have a judge state she would ignore the rules to place a rider over a better round simply because they “adhered” to tradition. White breeches for men are tradition.

Hopefully that’s an outlier

[APirateLooksAtForty]

Completely agree with MHM. Would love for mroades to weigh in.

[Midge]

@RAyers

Fair enough, -snicklefritzg. However, you literally have a judge state she would ignore the rules to place a rider over a better round simply because they “adhered” to tradition. White breeches for men are tradition.

Except they didn’t literally say that. They didn’t even imply that.

[HappyAmmy]

I have seen many people go from one ring to the other on Sunday’s and wear whites in the hunters/eq. I don’t think a lot of judges care one way or the other, just as I don’t believe they care if you have an Edgewood square raised bridle or custom Tucci boots. I think RIDERS care way more about names and brands than judges who are hopefully entirely too busy making notes about way of going and quality of jump and/or rider efficacy to notice what brand breeches/helmet/tack the rider is wearing.

Now with all of that said, I equate wearing whites in the hunters/eq to wearing white gloves in dressage. You damn well better be able to hold your own in a crowd because you are going to to stand out. White gloves in dressage accentuate every movement so your hands better be quiet, even and soft because they glow like a flashlight. White breeches in a sea of tan Tailoreds is going to be something noticed if for no other reason than, well, WHITE. Just like if you braid your horse in hot pink. The judge isn’t going to easily forget you. If you can back it up with a quality ride, carry on with your bad self.

[RAyers]

@Midge

Except they didn’t literally say that. They didn’t even imply that.

So what does this line of statements imply then?

“It is not traditional, and therefore inadvisable, unless you have a legitimate reason, such as showing in a jumper classic on the same day. Otherwise you may give the impression of someone who either doesn’t know or doesn’t respect the traditions of the sport.”

“Personally, I would not care to give the impression that I did not know or respect the traditions of the sport, regardless of the quality of the trip.”

I am with Daventry. The above attitude is why people DON’T want to go into the hunters and why people like me left the hunters. When style outweighs substance, the foundation of the sport is lost.

Having ridden the hunt, if “traditions” were to truly be adhered to, then a full gallop with the rider in a safe, defensive position should score above what is currently considered a “good hunter.” We also wear white breeches out on the hunt.

When a person defends “traditions” for an ARENA HUNTER, then they need to acknowledge those are specific “traditions” that are only fairly recent, only in the US, and are not indicative of what a true hunt horse and rider are expected to do.

Reed

[MHM]

@RAyers

Fair enough, -snicklefritzg. However, you literally have a judge state she would ignore the rules to place a rider over a better round simply because they “adhered” to tradition. White breeches for men are tradition.

I beg your pardon???

Where exactly did I say that? Would you please quote the post where I said that?

In case I was not clear enough in my previous posts, any rider may wear any attire that is allowed under the rules. Most riders choose to follow the traditions of the hunter ring, which include wearing white breeches only under very specific conditions (men in formal attire, riders who are showing in jumper classics on the same day), using a standing martingale on a hunter, not a running martingale, braiding for the hunters and equitation. Etc., etc.

That does not mean the rider will be penalized for wearing white breeches under other circumstances. Or using different tack, or skipping the braids. It just means most people choose not to do it.

[Dewey]

MHM, you are correct in pointing out that you did not say explicitly that you would penalize a rider for wearing white breeches. However, you stated that you “would not do it,” nor would you use a running martingale in a hunter class. To you, wearing white breeches or using a running martingale suggests that a rider isn’t aware of or respectful of the sport’s traditions–even though such equipment is clearly within the rules.

Certainly you are entitled to your opinion. At first you seemed to be speaking as a competitor, and we could regard your opinion as just that–an opinion, a preference no more important than my preference of plaited reins over laced ones. But your position as a judge suddenly gives your opinion more weight. Now you are saying that people can use or wear whatever they want (as long as they are within the rules). However, why then did you advise the OP earlier in the thread not to wear the while breeches? Why did you suggest that it matters if you did not mean to suggest that in your position as a judge, you would knock a rider for wearing white breeches or using a running martingale?

A judge’s opinion matters to competitors more than the opinion of other competitors (or at least it does to a lot of us). Whether you mean to or not, you’re giving readers the impression that they may be knocked by a judge for using equipment or wearing colors that are specifically cited in the rules as permissible.

[Dewey]

And by the way, I do understand what it means to conform to pressure. I wear a white shirt, a navy coat, and beige breeches in the hunter ring just like most other people. But if I did choose to wear white breeches, I would not expect to be advised by a judge that I was doing something inappropriate–or to lose points because of it.

[Midge]

@RAyers

So what does this line of statements imply then?

“It is not traditional, and therefore inadvisable, unless you have a legitimate reason, such as showing in a jumper classic on the same day. Otherwise you may give the impression of someone who either doesn’t know or doesn’t respect the traditions of the sport.”

“Personally, I would not care to give the impression that I did not know or respect the traditions of the sport, regardless of the quality of the trip.”

Reed

Well, it implies that as a rider, they would not wear white. They never replied from a judge’s perspective at all.

[Midge]

@Dewey

Why did you suggest that it matters if you did not mean to suggest that in your position as a judge, you would knock a rider for wearing white breeches or using a running martingale?

A judge’s opinion matters to competitors more than the opinion of other competitors (or at least it does to a lot of us). Whether you mean to or not, you’re giving readers the impression that they may be knocked by a judge for using equipment or wearing colors that are specifically cited in the rules as permissible.

I would never, in a million years, use a running martingale in a hunter class. Ever. However, back in the dark ages when I was judging, I pinned a horse pretty well that showed in a running martingale and took a good bit of heat for it.

I would still never, ever use a running martingale. I would still not eliminate the horse who showed in front of me wearing one. Judge and exhibitor are two different jobs.

[Daventry]

@Midge

Well, it implies that as a rider, they would not wear white. They never replied from a judge’s perspective at all.

I hate to bring a shovel into this argument, as the hole is already deep enough…but I think what people are upset about is that MHM’s post below gives the impression that it is replied from a judge’s perspective. I also took MHM’s responses throughout this thread the same way.

@Daventry

This is incorrect. USEF rule HU128.2 (page 894) states, “Breeches may be buff, canary, tan, rust or white.” I am a USEF R Hunter judge. I would never penalize a hunter competitor for wearing white breeches in the ring. There are bigger problems to worry about while judging.

In regards to someone who doesn’t know the traditions of the sport, as long as they are following all of the rule and lay down a nice trip worthy of a ribbon in a hunter class, I’m gonna pin them.

@MHM

You are certainly entitled to your opinion. As I am to mine.

Personally, I would not care to give the impression that I did not know or respect the traditions of the sport, regardless of the quality of the trip.

[MHM]

@Daventry

I hate to bring a shovel into this argument, as the hole is already deep enough…but I think what people are upset about is that MHM’s post below gives the impression that it is replied from a judge’s perspective. I also took MHM’s responses throughout this thread the same way.

My earlier replies were from my own perspective as an exhbitor. As an exhibitor, I would not wear white breeches or use a running martingale in a hunter class. Anyone else may do whatever they like within the rules.

I only mentioned the fact that I am a judge when someone else tried to tell me I should not be arguing with a judge. That’s all.

[Midge]

@Daventry

I hate to bring a shovel into this argument, as the hole is already deep enough…but I think what people are upset about is that MHM’s post below gives the impression that it is replied from a judge’s perspective. I also took MHM’s responses throughout this thread the same way.

Personally, I would not care to give the impression that I did not know or respect the traditions of the sport, regardless of the quality of the trip.

How can this be from a judge’s perspective when she says the bolded? It sounds to me what she would be doing as an exhibitor.

[Daventry]

@MHM

My earlier replies were from my own perspective as an exhbitor. As an exhibitor, I would not wear white breeches or use a running martingale in a hunter class. Anyone else may do whatever they like within the rules.

I only mentioned the fact fact that I am a judge when someone else tried to tell me I should not be arguing with a judge. That’s all.

Fair enough.

[Ladylexie]

@SnicklefritzG

There are rules and then there are traditions. In the equitation and hunters, even though the rules say that white is acceptable, a lot of people choose to not wear white because they don’t want to look different.

Even though some judges may not actively penalize someone for wearing white, it may call attention to the rider in a way that is not positive.

A rider wearing white in a sea of riders wearing beige is going to stand out. If that rider exhibits a flaw such as a swinging lower leg, heels that aren’t down, etc. it may be more noticeable to the judge. Wearing the same colors as everyone else is like camouflage in a way.

agreement. .I wouldn’t wear white.

[OnDeck]

Wow. There’s a lot of overthinking going on here.

Have a jumper classic? Wear the whites. At major shows, most juniors are wearing white on Sunday as most kids have a jumper. Wearing tan in the flat phase of the Maclay would likely be a minority, but of course still perfectly acceptable. Not pinning those in whites would mean knocking out the huge majority of the good riders.

The alternative is keeping a pair of pants in your backback and changing in the bathroom. That would be kind of gross and a logistical nightmare… what if your low junior/AO jumper classic is at 8AM, you go 45th in the equitation ring which will probably go before your medium junior jumper, but it could be after… then there’s your junior hunter waiting to go whenever you have a free minute, then back over to the eq ring to see if you got called back to flat? Of course most of us aren’t so lucky but that is very very common at the larger circuits. Even if you just have two horses you might not know which one’s going first. The catch riders would never leave the bathroom trying to change!

[gottagrey]

Raise your hands if you or anyone you know or see wears white breeches in the hunter ring? Sorry but I’ve only seen men wear them in formal classes/classics, as beige or canary are worn with a shad.(again this is in the hunter ring) Agree with the poster that asked why on earth would you want to wear white… Honestly if I were to see someone wearing white breeches in a hunter class, my immediate thought would be uh - dressage or event rider… as these days, at least the shows around me, t many jumper riders are opting to wear beige or some of the colored breeches.

What’s wrong with bringing rust back

[ladyj79]

@gottagrey

Raise your hands if you or anyone you know or see wears white breeches in the hunter ring? Sorry but I’ve only seen men wear them in formal classes/classics, as beige or canary are worn with a shad.(again this is in the hunter ring) Agree with the poster that asked why on earth would you want to wear white… Honestly if I were to see someone wearing white breeches in a hunter class, my immediate thought would be uh - dressage or event rider… as these days, at least the shows around me, t many jumper riders are opting to wear beige or some of the colored breeches.

What’s wrong with bringing rust back

You cannot ride big jumper classes in anything but white breeches. You certainly see colored/beige breeches in lower classes, but lots of white, and for big classes exclusively white unless like many Italian riders for instance you are wearing a military uniform.