Who do you think was the best filly of all time?

[haligator]

Genuine Risk, Ta Wee, Zenyatta, RA…

Hi All,
As a lot of you know I’m a filly/mare fanatic, so my list is all over the place and not limited to ten!

Genuine Risk (GR)
Ta Wee
Eight Belles (who, by virtue of not running on drugs, is the 2008 Kentucky Derby victor as far as I am concerned)
Personal Ensign
Ruffian
Mom’s Command
Go For Wand (Wanda)
Lady’s Secret
Dahlia
Davona Dale
Susan’s Girl
Cicada
Affectionately
Beldame
Artful
Kincsem
Pan Zaretta
Dance Smartly
Two Lea
Shuvee
Ouija Board
Sunline
Gallant Bloom
Gamely
Our Mims
Desert Vixen
Gallorette
Twilight Tear
Busher
Bayakoa
Azeri
Bewitch
Makybe Diva
Miesque
Winning Colors
Regret
All Along
Xtra Heat
Hallowed Dreams
Rags To Riches
Bold 'n Determined
Top Flight
and this past season (2009) has been all about the Ladies:
Zenyatta
Rachel Alexandra
Goldikova

Hallie
Hallie I. McEvoy
Racing Dreams, LLC

[Heart_s_Journey]

I have one more for your list - Dark Mirage, won the NT filly triple crown by huge margins, died too young… one of my all time favorites

[sporthorsefilly]

Ruffian by far!

I remember Dark Mirage, lovely filly. Another that died too young, Dr. Fager’s daughter Dearly Precious.

I also vote for Go For Wand.

Personal Ensign, a great filly. Zenyatta is there too.

[Marney]

Ruffian has been my favorite and always will be! She was pure speed. I do have to say though that so many horses metioned above are amazing and Zenyatta did bring tears to my eyes on BC day!!

[Kyzteke]

As GG said, how do you quantify “greatness?”

When you judge racehorses, folks tend to look at stuff like speed, distance, number of starts, weight carrying ability, etc.

If you are judging a filly/mare, I think you must see how they did “against the boys” as well.

I loved Ruffian and was on the track when she was around, and she was certainly ONE of the great ones, but she only ran – what? 12 races? She never carried alot of weight and she never ran against the boys till that last, sad race. She was amazingly fast, but that doesn’t tell the whole story.

I’m afraid I’d have to vote for Kincsem or Pan Zareta in terms of overall. They did it all – set records, carry weight, have long racing careers and beat the boys (over & over again).

We will never see the likes of those horses again, because the whole face/economy of racing has changed. But I bet they’d be kicking butt even if they were around today.

Funny, I hadn’t thought about Kincsem in years & years…when I was a kid I had a book that mentioned her.

Did she ever have any foals?

[vineyridge]

Kincsem was as good in the shed as she was on the track. According to her portrait at TB Heritage, her descendants through females were still winning Classics in Central Europe almost seventy five years after her career.

But if you want to find a superlative race mare who also was a superlative broodmare, Pretty Polly can’t be beat, thanks to her mother. She’s an example where the breeding gods smiled on the X chromosomes that got passed on from mother to daughter to daughter to today.
http://www.tbheritage.com/Portraits/PrettyPolly.htm

[Drvmb1ggl3]

Sceptre, ran in all five of the English Classics, winning four of them.
Won the 2000 Guineas on a Thursday (beating the boys), came out 2 days later and added the 1000 Guineas against the girls. Then on to Epsom where she was 4th in the Derby against the boys on a Weds, then won the Oaks the next day.
Then shipped across the channel to France a couple of weeks later and ran in the Grand Prix de Paris, then ran at 2 miles (and of course against boys again), was unplaced, but only two lengths behind the winner.
Ten days later she shows up at the Royal meeting at Ascot, where she raced in the Coronation stakes and the very next day won St James the Palace Stakes, beating males.
Continued a hectic schedule over the summer, culminating with winning the third leg of the Triple Crown, the St Leger in Sept (beating boys again obviously), giving her her 4th classic win of the year.

Zenyatta was a china doll in comparison.

[Calena]

@vineyridge;4496425

Kincsem was as good in the shed as she was on the track. According to her portrait at TB Heritage, her descendants through females were still winning Classics in Central Europe almost seventy five years after her career.

Yes, but can she dance? :lol::lol: Zenyatta’s like the PT Barnum of horse racing, The Greatest Show On Earth. She didn’t just impress or overwhelm, she entertained and certainly did her part to attract new fans to the sport.

Leaving now to read about Pretty Polly.

[vineyridge]

Drvm, I was just going to post the TB Heritage portrait of Sceptre.
http://www.tbheritage.com/Portraits/Sceptre.html

[Horseforthecourse]

Ruffian tops the list, but Rachel Alexandra is creeping up on her. There are some well-respected handicappers that they Rachel Alexandra may be the greatest of all time already. I want to see what she does as a four year old before I pass that torch.

Inside Information was a freak on her best day.
Ouija Board
Zarkava
Miesque
Personal Ensign
Makybe Diva
There are so many…

[Kyzteke]

@Calena;4496478

Yes, but can she dance? :lol::lol: Zenyatta’s like the PT Barnum of horse racing, The Greatest Show On Earth. She didn’t just impress or overwhelm, she entertained and certainly did her part to attract new fans to the sport.

Well, Kincsem didn’t have to attract new fans to the sport, because she raced back in the days that racing WAS “the sport”. But I seem to recall reading she had a HUGE following. Princes & kings came to see her race.

And I’m sorry – when you run 54 races and win every-single-one-of-them, and against some of the best horses of her day, that makes you pretty darn amazing. The Z’s & RA’s & Ruffians, as spectacular as they might be, are simply not in that class.

I’m not sure we are breeding horses anymore that would be in that class – the sport has changed so much.

Vineyridge – what is the most weight Kincsem ever carried? I Wikipedia’ed her, but it didn’t say.

[Calena]

@Kyzteke;4496666

Well, Kincsem didn’t have to attract new fans to the sport, because she raced back in the days that racing WAS “the sport”. But I seem to recall reading she had a HUGE following. Princes & kings came to see her race.

And I’m sorry – when you run 54 races and win every-single-one-of-them, and against some of the best horses of her day, that makes you pretty darn amazing. The Z’s & RA’s & Ruffians, as spectacular as they might be, are simply not in that class.

I’m not sure we are breeding horses anymore that would be in that class – the sport has changed so much.

Vineyridge – what is the most weight Kincsem ever carried? I Wikipedia’ed her, but it didn’t say.

Here’s the link to her race record. Top weight was 168 lbs!!!

http://74.125.95.132/search?q=cache:UY9MYiKzeSsJ:www.thoroughbredchampions.com/biographies/kincsem.htm+kincsem&cd=8&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

[Kyzteke]

@Calena;4496696

Here’s the link to her race record. Top weight was 168 lbs!!!

http://74.125.95.132/search?q=cache:UY9MYiKzeSsJ:www.thoroughbredchampions.com/biographies/kincsem.htm+kincsem&cd=8&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

WOW!! That is really impressive!

Look at her race record as a 5 yr. old – she never carried LESS than 136 lbs and never raced at any distance under 1 1/4 miles.

In her last race she carried 159 lbs over 1 1/2 miles and won by 10 LENGTHS!!! Holy smoke!

Truly, the modern gals are creampuffs in comparison…

[WhiteCamry]

@Beverley;4495705

Lordy, nobody mentioned Shuvee? Beat the guys twice in the Jockey Club Gold Cup, when it was still run at two miles!

That was when racing was racing!

[danceronice]

[QUOTE=Kyzteke;4496732]
WOW!! That is really impressive!

Look at her race record as a 5 yr. old – she never carried LESS than 136 lbs and never raced at any distance under 1 1/4 miles.

In her last race she carried 159 lbs over 1 1/2 miles and won by 10 LENGTHS!!! Holy smoke!

Truly, the modern gals are creampuffs in comparison…[/QUOTE]

See, THAT is a great racehorse. Also I put Kinscem on top because she was a successful broodmare.

For me, for a horse to REALLY be great, they have to carry weight, run LONG, and ideally reproduce themselves (geldings obviously have a disadvantage.) Males or females–I will always place War Admiral over Seabiscuit as the greater horse, not so much for the Triple Crown as for the fact that you could have solved Seabiscuit’s behavior problems by gelding him and not lost a thing in Thoroughbred bloodlines, while War Admiral is still in a huge percentage of broodmare pedigrees. Hence, Kinscem (which I keep forgetting to ask my Hungarian pro how to pronounce but I think it’s something like “KEEN-schem”) as the #1, though I think Pretty Polly and Sceptre have strong arguments. They raced, they carried weight, they won, they won against males

Modern American? Genuine Risk, though sadly she was a dud as a broodmare. Ruffian with the qualifiers above about no successful races against males, no high weights, etc., plus it may have been a sort of downer blessing she was never bred as her bloodlines weren’t the sort that really needed to be reproduced.

[regret]

Regret,

[Calena]

@*jumper*;4495150

Or mare

What I’m really wondering is if Zenyatta and/or Rachel really measure up to the big race mares of the past. If you had to name one big female superstar of horse racing, who would it be?

Jumper - Thank you for asking the question and thanks to everyone who contributed with their knowledge of the great mares of the past. I have to admit, it’s been bugging me listening to certain high-profile people describe their horses as ‘the best ever!’. I love our current champions just as much as the next person, but Curlin’ is no Secretariat, let alone Citation or Eclipse. Neither Rachel nor Zenyatta can hold a candle to some of the mares brought up on this thread.

I realize it’s unrealistic and serves no good purpose to drown in remorse about the good old days. But it sure was great to remember some of those mares and fillies that built this breed.

[beaujolais]

Moni Maker - trotting standardbred mare

[twelvebelles]

[QUOTE=caryledee;4495244]
Ruffian…hands down.

She won every race by huge margins and set track and stakes records in the process. Who knows how great she truly was; she died way too young.

http://www.tbgreats.com/ruffian/racerecord.html[/QUOTE]

Rachel Alexandra broke Ruffian’s track record and winning margin in the Mother Goose Stakes. I find that impressive. She’s always been my favorite filly for how many times she went up against the boys and consistently won.

[Sunsets]

Nice to see this thread resurrected. I love a good race mare.

So, where does Beholder fit in? And I guess the jury is still out on RA vs. Zenyatta in terms of reproducibility (though Rachel’s Valentina was looking pretty good there for a bit).

And apropos of nothing, the mare I ride (Han/TB) has Two Lea in her pedigree. That was fun to find out.