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Who makes the best quality saddles these days?

Hunter/Jumper
#41

It’s the other way around.

Ten years ago the County was pretty much top of the market.

The French foam calfskin saddles arrived at a significantly higher price point, at least 50% more.

In Canada a County new from rep is going to be in the $5000 range and a CWD or Voltaire in the $8000 to $10,000 range. Obviously all around less in $ US.

The really interesting question is how the French managed to almost double the price of a saddle in the past decade. There must be some real or perceived competitive advantage. It’s not durability!

Previous to this County was considered top of the line for jump saddles.

#42

OP, if I were not constrained by money or space, I’d have David Stackhouse make me a saddle and, along these same lines, I might have Paul Selvey/Superior Saddlery in CA come fit me and my horse, too.

After that, when you are talking about British, French or Tad Coffin or County, I think I’d choose based on the shape of the tree and then my preference for wool or foam flocking. I love Tad Coffin’s saddle for their balance and the tree’s fit for horses. I don’t love his thin panels so much (but with the tree and pads, I’m not sure that matters as much as you’d think), nor the way his lovely, soft saddles wear over time. I’d give County a chance to come fit me and my horse (at least for jumping saddles) because their tree and philosophy of fitting horses looks to be to be a tad unusual.

As you can tell, I would put the $6K+ Frenchies last. I think their trees are fundamentally not the most horse-friendly shape and I’m skeptical that their panels can fix that and also that their topsides can last Six Thousand Dollars Long.

You should know that I speak of the modern Frenchies from ignorance: I haven’t ridden in a ton of those, or been in charge of evaluating fit, nor caring for them over, say, a decade. If the balance is superb (the way Hermes saddles were in their historical moment), that would be a considerable point in their favor. Also, I speak from the perspective of having had a western saddle made for me… which was not $6K (but Up There). The guy who built the saddle saw the horse in person, measured her back and had a tree made for it. The saddle was hand carved and completely custom in every detail. It will outlive me. So I am biased.

But I love the question, OP. Of the English saddlers who work a bit like a good western saddle maker, I think Paul Selvey does that-- puts a naked tree on a horse’s back first and I think David Stackhouse provides a similar level of “completely custom” that you can’t get with the repped brands. Also, I have found Tad Coffin to be personally involved with fitting and selling his saddles. He makes a saddle that is unusual within the constellation of saddle builds/built-in fitting philosophy out there. If I and my horse wanted what he building, I would not feel bad about working with him to get the perfect saddle for the big price at the end.

#43

I can attest to this. I have an older Tad Coffin dressage saddle, I emailed an inquiry about the cost of redoing the panels, I expected an email response but shortly after the phone rang and it was Tad Coffin himself calling to discuss what I needed done and the cost.

5 Likes
#44

I just checked out Tad Coffin’s website. While the saddles are certainly on the pricey side, it says, “Try for 30 days. If you are not thoroughly delighted with your experience, we will refund 100% and pay for return shipping.” If only all brands would do this!!

I remember about 10 years ago, a friend of mine – who owns a small tack shop – got a County on consignment. I was like, “WTF is a County?” Now they seem to be making a comeback. A couple folks at my farm actually own one, including BO. We have a rep nearby who frequents our farm, so I’m leaning towards contacting her for a consultation.

Really appreciate everyone’s input here!

1 Like
#45

When I decided to get a Butet because I liked the narrower twist and closer feel than the more trendy French brands I contacted Sagmae in Virginia. Their fitter came out and took measurements of my horse, I tried some demos and decided to get one then. You can choose foam or wool flocking. Also panel size and shape, and type of leather. They guarantee your satisfaction in a custom saddle. Took about 8 weeks to make and ship from France. I have been thrilled so far.

#46

OP not trying to be nosy but we might be able to point you in a better direction if we knew what price point you are looking at. I would love to get a Stackhouse, they are probably the only people I would use at that price point. However, my budget is more online these days with a semi custom demo from Smith Worthington.

As has been stated new saddles are very much like cars with depreciation so for me quality means I can use the saddle for the life of the horse and beyond. Because of that I shy away from trendy brands.

Also saddles are a personal choice for you and the horse. As mentioned up thread about Adam Ellis, my horse hated it. I think I rode in it for a minute and said nope! I know people who love wintecs and bates and I hate them. People love county and for me they are nice but I don’t like them enough for the price point. I think for your purposes, Pessoa saddles seem to fit a wide range of horses. If you’d like to go the route of a saddle maker like Stackhouse, tell them what you are looking for. From my own experience with saddlers like that they will be more likely to say they can’t and suggest something that can.

1 Like
#47

Yes at the end of the day what matters is if the saddle fits you and the horse.

English saddles are not true custom. They have a limited range of trees, though a few brands have say a cob and a draft tree in addition to standard tree

Within a brand, obviously the wither gullets are different widths. But the front to back rocker curve and the vertical drape tend to be the same on all the tree sizes in the brand.

This means that one brand will be a better fit for your horse than another brand. And that no brand will fit all horses. So you need to get back tracings and find your brand first.

Once you have found a saddle where the tree basically fits, the wool flocking can be adjusted to fix minor bridging whether it’s new or used. If you get a new foam saddle the panels are made to measure. If you get a used foam saddle new panels
”‹”‹”‹”‹”‹are much more expensive and typically go through a dealer, but on the other hand I understand foam panels have a wider tolerance than wool.

I think that where fit in a custom saddle goes wrong is when there is a mismatch between horse and the brand’s tree but the saddle rep wants the sale so badly they will promise the earth. Also the saddle fitting directives from the big companies can be a bit self serving and misleading.

Note that a saddle that doesn’t fit the horse can be very uncomfortable for the rider and if the horse outgrows the saddle it can suddenly start hurting the rider too!

”‹”‹”‹”‹”‹”‹My mare is in Passier jump and dressage, and I really like their saddles. My coach adores them so I’ve ridden in a few. County has also been a good match for her.

Interestingly I took maresy’s back tracings to a mobile consignment seller who specializes in French foam. She said that with a very few exceptions, one Equipe model maybe, the saddles ran too narrow for her. She’s a 16 hand Paint with good high English withers and a huge shoulder and nice broad back. She’s easier to fit English than Western, she doesn’t have low stock horse withers. But still there was nothing in the foam saddles that would work. I have to believe that seller because she repped for some of the brands before going to self employed consignment and she knows her way around the market, and I’m sure she wouldn’t have let a potential sale walk away!

in contrast to all thus, a master craftsman Western saddle maker can have 20 or 30 different trees that he starts by laying on the horses back. Then as said earlier in this post he builds it from the ground up.

That’s not how English semi custom works and if you buy through a rep that actual saddle fitters working on your saddle never see your horse.

”‹”‹
”‹”‹”‹

1 Like
#48

I feel like I am picking on you. I am going to disagree again. I have had 2 Patrick Saddlery saddles. He has WAY more than 2 trees. The saddles I had were pretty darn custom. He is English.

My retired horse is REALLY hard to fit. My independent saddle fitter walked around the AETA convention center and asked all the saddle fitters. AETA is the trade show for equestrian in the US. https://www.aeta.us/.
“Do you fit hard to fit horses?”
Reply: “Oh yes.” She would show them pictures of Finnegan.
Reply: “Well not that, try Patrick”. We are talking multiple saddle brands referred her to Patrick. She eventually made her way to his booth.
His reply. “No problem.” He came out the next night in his dress clothes, in the winter and fitted him. I have loved both saddles I got from him for that horse.
Here is the Facebook album of Finnegan’s back.
https://www.facebook.com/nikki.dougherty/media_set?set=a.4748736682460&type=3

Check out the underside of the first saddle he made for me.
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=4972867645594&set=pb.1416383062.-2207520000…&type=3&theater

I am somewhat hesitant to recommend him for US customers as I have had the unique experience of working directly with him in conjunction with my independent saddle fitter. I also don’t think he has a lot of US fitters that work with him. I love his saddles. He has some really cool videos on his FB showing making the saddle from tree on up. The most recent was a dressage saddle for a para-equestrian. He did one where he made the drum saddle for one of the Queen’s horses. I know has at least one other video from tree to finished products.

He has access to an adjustable tree also.

He seems to be primarily known for dressage saddles but both of my saddles were jump saddles. First one was a regular jump saddle in an 18.5 inch and the next was a monoflap in a 17.5 in. I really loved the monoflap.

2 Likes
#49

County saddles have been around for more than 30 years. But they didn’t get into the private sales/rep business at first. They first County Competitor I bought in the mid-1980s came from a tack store.

I think that County thinks a saddle’s tree should fit right down close to a horse’s back. Their trees, gullets and then panels tend to be on the wide side. Generally speaking, I think this is a great way to making a saddle comfortable for a horse. But! Not all of them agree. I had a gelding who preferred to give his withers “room to breathe” (a direct quote from him, LOL). I accused him of wanting a “cathedral gullet.” We did find a saddle he liked, but I still think he was wrong to not like the County’s fit. But it’s his back, so…

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#50

My horse had a similar opinion- the County’s sat right up alongside his withers and he did not appreciate it! I was sad to sell those 2 saddles 😢

#51

Well he’s probably the exception that shows how far the others fall flat. And you say he doesn’t really distribute in North America?

Almost all the big name saddle brands sold in North America are from British, French, and German brands. The rep measures the horse and then the saddle is shipped from the factory and the rep may tweak the flocking a bit. But the actual saddle fitter cannot see your horse.

Obviously if there’s a saddle maker in proximity to your horse that’s fantastic. There are probably a few true custom one man artisan brands in the US but nothing with national reach.

#52

Wow. I clicked through the FB album of your white horse (naked and dressed) and I’m really. really impressed with the job his saddler did. Kinda makes me misty-eyed, as a matter of fact. Kinda the Mozart of English saddle makers right there. You guys should all take a look.

10 Likes
#53

He does distribute in the US but doesn’t have a big presence. I frequently see Patrick dressage saddles on consignment at Pelham. My local fitter has sold a few.
At one point there was a online retailer that you could buy his saddles through but I don’t see that coming up anymore. He just isn’t well known in the US.
Because of my saddle fit issues and his guarantee I was willing to order the saddles without riding in them. I was limited to a wide twist due to Finnegan’s back width. A narrow would have pinched him. Most people want to ride in it first.

ETA I think I saw on his FB that he has a rep in FL this year maybe at Wellington?

1 Like
#54

Just wanted to say thank you for sharing that album. What an incredible fit!! Finnegan is also adorable. :yes:

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#55

To be honest I can’t remember the exact price as it has been many years. I believe I paid in the range of mid $3k (which I know is still a ton) but I got upgraded leather (buffalo), a more forward flap (I think this was an upcharge) and gusseted panels (which I also think was an upcharge). Plus a girth and a saddle pad and a half pad.
Compared to the $4.5k for something similar from CWD, $5k from Voltaire and $5k from Butet. None of those prices included upgrades, just baseline models.

My saddle also came with a free reflock when it shipped in and the rep left me a loaner for close to 3 months to ride in. If I had to do it all over again, I wouldn’t change a thing. Every single independent saddle fitter has ooohed and aahhhed over this saddle. Not to mention the leather is the easiest thing to clean in the world. It looks literally brand new and it gets no fancy products at all. Just good ol glycerin bar soap 99% of the time.

From what I understand, County and similar British wool flocked saddles are cheaper because they aren’t French or Italian and not nearly as “cool”. Hah

Sorry, I will stop gushing. I am low key obsessed.

3 Likes
#56

Look at the County website they have demo saddles on sale, average is high $3000 to low $4000

#57

I have to jump in and add a recent experience I had with a Devoucoux, as that was part of the original question. I’ve only bought used saddles because, well, my kids like to eat, but I was able to buy a used Devoucoux last March from a rep at a local event. Let’s just say that rep was slightly skeevy and when I returned to the booth this year with questions about why my horse was getting rubs, the new rep recognized that the saddle was not in great condition, through no fault of mine. I expected this to be a “too bad, so sad” situation, but our amazing rep Amber just sent the saddle back to their US offices in Wellington for a “makeover” from the inside out at Devoucoux’s expense. We might never sit in a new saddle (and our rep knows it!) but I am extremely impressed with the way that Devoucoux stands by its product! Based on this experience, I wouldn’t hesitate to buy a new Devoucoux. Feel free to PM me for Amber’s contact info.

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#58

Thank you.

1 Like
#59

Passier. Tough as iron. A new one will take longer to break in than the soft french saddles, but that is also why they last forever. Once broken in, super comfortable to ride in. Generally horses like them. The cutback pommel is great for prominent withers (i.e most warmbloods and thoroughbreds) And for the price you can’t go wrong - a brand new Ehning costs less than most of the used CWDs I see advertised.
https://www.passier.com/en/saddles/jumping-saddles/

3 Likes
#60

Okey dokey, as someone who has ridden in everything under the sun and it’s mother, I’d like to throw my lil hat into this ring with my opinions.

The initial question was the durability and longevity of the leather. My very first question is how much work do you want to put in? A stubben WILL hold up for years but that’s because the initial leather is thick and hard to deal with. You have to break it in. The leather on, say, a CWD or Voltaire is that pre broken in feeling. It takes the work out and feels amazing to ride in from day one.
I’ve had my Voltaire for six years and sometimes was riding 3-5 a day in it and the only wear is on the seams of the seat (normal to me, where the thigh rubs and the body moves most from positing and two point), and some stitching on the lower skirt due to my schooling boot’s zipper coming undone and rubbing the stitches loose. Voltaire fixed this for free for me when I purchased another saddle for my jumper. I oil the thing religiously. It gets the Voltaire conditioner every few weeks and it’s in pristine condition. I think one day in the next two years I may have to replace the seat, but I know my rep can work something out for me that will be reasonable.
TL;DR - if you put the WORK in, things will last. If you care for the saddle, I don’t see why it won’t give you years and years of good use. In my experience with these ‘trendy’ saddles, they’re still made for the long haul if you put the care in.

Wear through the flaps is very dependent on the way a rider’s leg sits/moves on the leather. My current trainer had a County for years with no wear and tear and after a month of a student borrowing it there was significant damage and holes in the flaps. If you’ve worn holes in saddles before, I have a feeling you will again, no matter the brand.

Here are some of my experiences with different brands.

Black Country - These are the saddles I Evented in when I was a teen. Wonderful experience at first that quickly turned south as I grew. The saddle I bought didn’t grow with me, instead were a snapshot of a 13 year old who then kept growing and changing. NOT the saddle’s fault, but our fitter was very hard to get to our area, which caused frustration from both me and my coach. In particular, me not being able to get my leg and position where she wanted it in either my jump or dressage saddle. The focus on a lot of these type of brand is correctness in the horse’s fit, but not doing anything to help the rider achieve correct positioning.

The other problem I incurred with a wool flocked saddle is the constant maintenance of it. Do you have the funds and time available to get the flocking redone every about six months like the saddle fitters I know recommend? Your horse’s back changes and because of that the saddle fit will over time as well.
Not to mention you ride multiple horses, which will cause wear and compression in different areas of wool. It’s an upkeep I personally don’t think I am willing to deal with, even with a fitter now living close by in Florida.

County - This is the brand my current trainer is sponsored by, and everyone except me, the assistant coach and one of the juniors ride in them. From an aesthetic point of view, they look huge on horses to me. The leather is thick, and heavy. That, I believe, is my main issue. I want to be able to carry the saddle with ease, and having to haul it up to just get it on the horse’s back seems tedious. Not to mention, why add so much weight to their back if it can be helped? I also am not impressed with the leather quality - it seems meh and can be slicker.
I think it’s a personal preference, but the panels also seem blobby and big compared to other brands, which is probably akin to the philosophy of their fitting style.

Devacoux - The trainer I had back home when I was in high school was a sponsored rider and I liked riding in his saddles. When I made the switch from my Black Country’s, I attempted to go with Devacoux, but they refused to come to Arkansas to fit just me. Super bad customer service, IMO, so I went with Voltaire and never looked back. From my experiences, a lot of people have issues getting Dev. out for fittings if you’re in a remote area.

Voltaire - I adore my Voltaires! The customer service they provide is always top notch, for the first point. I’ve never had a bad experience with a rep or a person on the phone, and they always go above and beyond to make things right if there is a problem. I started out with a Palm Beach when I bought my hunter and loved it for just the hunters and occasional adult medal for five years. When I acquired a jumper this past fall, we were having issues staying together with how powerful she jumped. When the rep came to look at some issues I was having with my stitching, I tried a Stuggart and fell in love all over again. So now I have two saddles and I couldn’t be happier.
My experiences with Voltaire are that they really work on finding the right panel configurations to help you best achieve great equitation and riding. My leg position completely changed on my mare when I got the Stuggart and now it looks like I spent years in the big eq ring instead of galloping xc. I couldn’t recommend their product enough - so much so that my last barn changed from Dev. to Voltaire when I had a fitter out, even the coach changed her sponsorships!

Super TL;DR - I’m a huge voltaire fan, but I personally believe that YOU need to sit in as much as you can to test what you enjoy riding in best, as well as what helps or hinders your position when you’re flatting and jumping.
Good luck!

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