Who will train the horses? plus, the rebuttal

[Rnichols]

I absolutely loathe this line of thinking. Someone said something negative and (potentially) untrue and the other person is just supposed to stay quiet to let it “blow over”? WTF. No. Ugh, that just so totally rubs me the wrong way - I am not one to stay quiet to let things not escalate. Yes, I understand picking your battles, but at the same time I refuse to be walked over and if someone was publicly talking poorly about me and I saw / heard about it I would for sure address it.

Staying quiet gives all the power to the bullly, and that’s part of why bullies continue to do what they do - because they have faced no one standing up to them. Honestly I even debated posting this reply, because what difference does it make - I’m likely not going to change your mind and that’s fine - but I feel it needed to be reiterated.

[DMK]

So, we are essentially agreeing? I mean I’m pretty sure we are and you are just adding some recent events flavor to my post, but the call-out is throwing me a wee bit.

[mvp]

@enjoytheride

I guess it is really all the "Accused " fault for not only being a terrible rider but speaking out. She should have just kept her mouth shut and let someone complain about “kids these days”

Well… that’s not what I said, of course. But, yes, it is the fault of the accused rider that I know who she is now. I don’t have an opinion about what she “should” have done. But I do think her feeling that she was publicly shamed is a tad self-inflicted. She could have left it alone and non-locals would have been none the wiser as to the whippersnapper’s identity.

[mvp]

@Rnichols

I absolutely loathe this line of thinking. Someone said something negative and (potentially) untrue and the other person is just supposed to stay quiet to let it “blow over”? WTF. No. Ugh, that just so totally rubs me the wrong way - I am not one to stay quiet to let things not escalate. Yes, I understand picking your battles, but at the same time I refuse to be walked over and if someone was publicly talking poorly about me and I saw / heard about it I would for sure address it.

Staying quiet gives all the power to the bullly, and that’s part of why bullies continue to do what they do - because they have faced no one standing up to them. Honestly I even debated posting this reply, because what difference does it make - I’m likely not going to change your mind and that’s fine - but I feel it needed to be reiterated.

But the vast majority of readers didn’t actually know who was being written about… until the rider posted. That’s not particularly self-preserving of one’s reputation, is it? And I assume that’s what you and the rider think is important?

If you had been falsely accused of something publicly and by name, I think you’d have a point.

[mvp]

@DMK

So, we are essentially agreeing? I mean I’m pretty sure we are and you are just adding some recent events flavor to my post, but the call-out is throwing me a wee bit.

Yes, we are agreeing. I can take down my post or not mention you in it, if you like. I was just mentioning you because I was responding to the post of yours that I quoted. I don’t mean to offend. Let me know what you’d like me to do.

[DMK]

No no, not offended, just confused (some days that happens more easily than others) so I went for clarification. You are fine!

[mvp]

@enjoytheride

https://horsesport.com/magazine/equine-ownership/who-will-train-horses-one-day/amp/?mibextid=Zxz2cZ&fbclid=IwAR3LDDApIaLX7VA7xwL_JmhAzOBZkBS8AcFNF-G3yJEaz06yqEs6peCTvnE

Response to the above article

https://jaydukeblog.wordpress.com/2023/06/07/embracing-empathy-understanding-in-the-equestrian-community-a-rebuttal-to-who-will-train-the-horses-one-day/?fbclid=IwAR1aWZ1upSqyrtIxvreRBlcHpUwTlQ-BjDpv_Rsv5l9-Bs1sgFKMv4EyNRk

Cool, cool. Glad to hear it.

And I always get a little wigged out when I get an email notification that someone responded to me, personally. 40/60 good/bad. LOL.

[Rnichols]

I think it’s important to stand up to someone saying negative and untrue things about you [g]. If that means “outing” myself, then so be it.

[subk]

@subk

Maybe they weren’t the “best,” Pennywell Bay. But there was no question that these kids could ride over fences really, really well. Or that they had the stuff to be incredibly successful in the ring…They were jumping the poles better than any kid I had ever seen in the eventing YR program no doubt. They were quieter with their hands had exceptional and more consistent canters and incredible tact.

It would make my day if some one came here and “bashed” me the same way I apparently “bashed” jumper kids.

That kids that actually compete in dressage have better dressage skills than those that don’t is not some slam on kids that don’t. Maybe you should go back and read my posts for comprehension instead of jumping to offense. The point I’ve made here and other places is that there is not this neat and unimpeachable link between good dressage and good jumping that is considered a matter of religion within most eventing circles. That we as eventers have something to learn from the excellence that is jumper kids who have not tied that excellence to a faithful compliance with formal dressage. And when eventers get presented with that reality it is very surprising.

If you find that offensive…well, then you do you.

[mvp]

@Rnichols

I think it’s important to stand up to someone saying negative and untrue things about you [g]. If that means “outing” myself, then so be it.

Ok, but then you can’t be butthurt because someone said untrue things about you… when it was not you they identified.

Your POV is admirable. I truly hope you walk the walk on that 100% of the time, they way you let us know you do. I’m as socially liberal as they come and I don’t think I can match your track record. You must be awesome for the many, many oppressed groups one can find in the bigoted. I hope you don’t waste too much energy on this aggrieved party. It’s just not worth it, given all the other unfairness you could fight in this world.

[Rnichols]

WTF are you talking about??? I literally don’t understand why you’re so upset for me disagreeing with you, but ok.

You do you, and I’ll continue to stand up for myself as I see appropriate.

[enjoytheride]

@mvp

Ok, but then you can’t be butthurt because someone said untrue things about you… when it was not you they identified.

Your POV is admirable. I truly hope you walk the walk on that 100% of the time, they way you let us know you do. I’m as socially liberal as they come and I don’t think I can match your track record. You must be awesome for the many, many oppressed groups one can find in the bigoted. I hope you don’t waste too much energy on this aggrieved party. It’s just not worth it, given all the other unfairness you could fight in this world.

WHAT ON EARTH!

[Marigold]

@mvp

Ok, but then you can’t be butthurt because someone said untrue things about you… when it was not you they identified.

You definitely can, when they include enough identifying information that you can be correctly sure it is you they are talking about. You said it yourself, as quoted below (bolding my own) - locally, everyone knew who she was talking about. There was no “I wonder if this is about me?” for that rider. It was about her. She knew it was about her, her friends knew it was about her, her trainer knew it was about her. Of course it’s legitimate for her to be upset a big (ish) name trainer was taking potshots at her in a widespread publication.

@mvp

this could have slid by unnoticed except by a local few had the Accused not made it A Thing.

@mvp

She could have left it alone and non-locals would have been none the wiser as to the whippersnapper’s identity.

[cristalle]

That is a seriously mean and over the top response.

[Impractical_Horsewoman]

Mean, perplexing, and WTF? I don’t even understand it.

Also, although a lot of us here wouldn’t have known who it was about–within the community of pros/ people who ride and train at that level it was apparently obvious enough for the rider to feel compelled to defend her reputation.

There was a blog post by a prominent dressage trainer a number of years ago defending her student from criticism for riding a test at a level for which the student was unprepared. The criticism came from a highly respected amateur rider, and the woman responded in comments on the COTH thread. Based on the comments at the time, it was a large show, and all the involved parties were very well known and easy to identify. Heck, even I could identify the people and I am a sub-smurf. The horse world is small and just because I, Suzy Q. Unrated Amateur doesn’t know the people doesn’t mean it’s ethically okay to cast shade when within the professional world this person is operating the people are known and NOT to expect a response.

[poltroon]

When I was a kid, the California Lottery ran a funny commercial where the actor walks into a supermarket and says, “If I won the Lottery, I could totally buy all this cheese…” and to me that encapsulates the idea of Money Can Buy Happiness very strongly.

If you’ve ever gone to the grocery store with only a limited amount of funds in your pocket, it’s incredibly stressful to be checking the price of every item and keep the running total of what’s in your cart in your head so that you don’t go over. Exhausting.

And that’s even a step before “I can put any cheese in my cart without worrying about the price” which is a luxury I do not take for granted.

Being able to have horses, being able to just buy stuff you need, being able to call the veterinarian for simple things without worrying about your bank balance, being able to throw cash at an emergency, these are all huge luxuries and money buys them all. Not having money buys stress and worry and heartache and requires half measures and more personal time to solve problems.

Tying it back to the original thread, there’s nothing like money to buy facilities and instruction and schoolmasters and time to absorb all the lessons. And nothing like having to work for a living that interferes with learning things and doing stuff yourself.

[poltroon]

@mvp

A young-ish pro where I live, who has a pretty good-sounding résumé from H/J world is now getting sued for letting a horse die while tied up (supposedly, head way elevated, like you’d see done to a Western Pleasure Horse). According to the complaint, the horse would not load, so the pro tied it this way, presumably to teach it something about loading, and went to the show. The horse was later found dead, with evidence of struggle. There are other elements to the complaint that let you know that the owner/plaintiff couldn’t let this go as just a terrible accident.

But my point is that there was a ton of bad horsemanship involved. And, IMO, that comes from the lack of depth of knowledge that gets built in to the people who were rich enough as juniors to create the record that would allow them to hang out shingles now.

I grew up around people who taught horses to tie and fixed bad loaders and also knew how to have a skillful Come To Jesus Meeting with a horse who had basic questions about whether or not he had to accept training at all. Today, those guys are hard to find. They are also the “cowboys” that the English show people want to send their recalcitrant (or overfaced, confused, misunderstood, recently-imported) WBs to. The “cowboys” don’t get the credit or the money that the show-going trainers do. But they do get called into clean up the training messes that these other pros make. And believe me: That is harder and more dangerous than starting a colt the right way.

I learned from those guys, along the way while I was trying to become a Hunter Princess. I’m a lowly amateur whose name and picture will never appear in the “Chronicle of the Horse.” But, goddamn, I know enough to not kill a horse this way.

Oh, friend, people have been doing abusive bullshit to horses for generations, and taught their students to do it too. I doubt tying the horse that way was her original idea.

We just didn’t hear about it. It wouldn’t be documented in writing; at most there might be whispers. Even when the horses died.

The “good old days” had some very cool aspects that I miss, but don’t wear rose-colored glasses. Horses had shorter, more painful lives; lots of kids were excluded; and our trainers had very limited chances to learn from anyone other than their one local mentor.

Remember blistering and pin-firing? Thank goodness we have so many better tools now.

[jaj]

I am struggling to see how this post, based on Ms. Law’s own writing, is different, in any spirit, from what folks are complaining about in Lesley Law’s writing. It also has a big whiff of mean girl.

[Pennywell_Bay]

Enjoytheride is using “The Accused” from a different post and in sarcasm font

[RAyers]

Kids these days!

When I was their age I lived next door to a nuclear weapons plant. Did we complain?! No!! We used it to our advantage. Our natural glow let us ride at night. We could see where everybody was even on a moonless night. No whining about cancer or aplastic anemia. Kids.

Kids these days have no idea how easy they have it. The hadn’t even invented helmets back then. You fell off and hit your head? Duct tape that skull back together! To hell with school and good grades!

Money wasn’t around. We still traded for rocks and chickens! One horse cost a dozen good laying hens. Money ruined everything.