Who will train the horses? plus, the rebuttal

[Gardenhorse]

I have to admit that I was surprised when one of the 20-something workers at my barn recently said she had never done standing wraps before. And I know she was in pony club for many years.

During my barn rat days in the early 90’s, we always did standing wraps and bell boots for trailering. I have to say that Velcro shipping boots are an huge improvement!

A horsemanship thing I never learned was dealing with hoof abscesses. I was so confused as a rerider when I first saw someone putting a diaper on a hoof. I don’t remember a single abscess from my barn rat years.

[RAyers]

ME! ME! I remember having a handful of safety pins and masking tape for my flannels! And searching the straw if you lost a safety pin.

Kids these days. Why do they keep coming across my lawn!? Them and their influencey snappybooktoks and new fangled electroinduced blankies and matchy matchy shirts.

Whatever happened to going full Keith Richards for days, slapping your beer down and getting on course?!

[Cowboy_Girl]

Her writing an article like this makes me want to ride with her MORE.

1. No sugar coating of flaws. I’m paying for her honest opinion of my skills
2. The hangers on will be weeded out. Again more bang for my buck
3. Her writing about common failings of students is free tuition for me

[enjoytheride]

What is a hanger on and how will they be weeded out?

[Live_Wire]

I’ve struggled with this article and the rebuttal quite a bit. I can’t quite organize my thoughts well enough for a proper response, but I guess the short of my opinion is that I agree and disagree.

Kids are different these days. The world has changed a lot. Fortunately I don’t think there are as many hardships. Does that mean they feel entitled? I don’t know if that’s fair.

Discipline has changed, too. People fear repurcussions from fair punishments because we live in a cancel culture. It makes a difference and I think that’s ultimately where my frustrations live. I do think there is a blanket lack of respect, but that’s not isolated to the equestrian community.

[Pennywell_Bay]

@Cowboy_Girl

• No sugar coating of flaws. I’m paying for her honest opinion of my skills
• The hangers on will be weeded out. Again more bang for my buck
• Her writing about common failings of students is free tuition for me

On point 1- she wasn’t being paid for her opinion. LL was there for a lesson. Therefore, waking in on a lesson (and watching it from the outside).

I have ridden with a pretty famous eventer clinician. Both times he brings us in and asks for a debrief of where we are, what we want to work on etc etc. if you’re outside the ring you can’t hear what’s being said. Either way- it wasn’t LLs opinion that was being purchased.

If the 20 something posted about a well know person and their flaws- she’s have been eviscerated and how dare she.

[Impractical_Horsewoman]

Honestly, I think this is something we are struggling with as a society on a even bigger level than riding.

There are some tough, incredibly knowledgeable people who got their skills in a different era, where instructors could pretty much say what they hell they wanted. Lots of what they said was valuable, but they also could get stuck in their ways, and were sometimes prejudiced against certain kinds of students for no good reasons, and could also occasionally use verbally and even physically abusive methods. (I’m thinking at the most extreme of George Morris putting thumbtacks on people’s saddles or making a student roll around in the dirt because he thought she seemed too proud of her sweater.)

So the reaction to that can be that every time someone receives criticism is to get incredibly defensive and to run to social media to look to support from friends who say “you’re fantastic just as you are.”

There has to be a way to grow and learn that’s meaningful, and to hear tough but fair criticism, but to criticize in a way that’s not abusive and petty.

[Marigold]

@Live_Wire

Kids are different these days. The world has changed a lot. Fortunately I don’t think there are as many hardships.

I strongly disagree with this. Do they have velcro on their standing wraps? Yes, the lucky twerps. Could they identify the sound of a petal bell boot if their life depended on it? I’m sure they couldn’t, the little jerks.

But these kids are growing up with the core knowledge that they almost certainly will never be able to buy a house. Heck, they won’t even finish paying for their education until they are nearly dead. And they can’t go without that education because no education means they’ll have almost no employment opportunities. On the positive side, the “nearly dead” part might come much earlier for them than for previous generations due to the whole planet-on-fire/planet-underwater option they seem likely to get to choose from at some point.

To a certain extent, I’m being dramatic. Especially in the horse world, there will always be children in very wealthy families who will never have to worry about any of this. But if you look at Maslow’s hierarchy of needs, the needs that are being threatened for kids these days are the very bottom of the pyramid. They have all the modern comforts and conveniences one could ever dream of, but whether they have any ability to carve out a future for themselves to enjoy those comforts and conveniences is questionable at best. It must feel terrible, and incredibly unstable, to grow up like that. From where I’m sitting, kids these days are experiencing far greater hardships than ever occurred to me as a child.

[Live_Wire]

@Marigold

Especially in the horse world, there will always be children in very wealthy families who will never have to worry about any of this.

I hate this generalization. It’s in any sport or home. Some kids are more fortunate than others, and that’s how the cookie crumbles. That doesn’t mean kids will have less opportunities when they become adults. Resources are more available now than they ever were!

Admittedly, I have a really hard time sympathizing with this argument. Being Gen Z or Gen Alpha, or even a Millenial, doesn’t give you a hall pass from struggling or having to make sacrifices. If you’re willing to put in the hard work and be creative, there are so, so many possibilities.

I have a [millenial] acquaintance who is very vocal about the current economic climate. She’s very outspoken about her struggles and how growing up blue collar has been hard. Growing up blue collar opened the door to receive financial aid when she went to a private school. The reality is, she cannot buy a house, etc. because she spent her money poorly and has an additional master’s degree she pursued willingly - meaning she knew the amount of debt she was going to incur and be responsible for. She didn’t need her masters, or even her bachelors, for the positions she holds (which is quite cushy and secure).

I am a millenial. I grew up without running water or electricity, sometimes without food. I vividly remember my mom chosing which pets to sacrifice so we could get by… I’ve been homeless. I’ve been on my own since I was 16. I wrecked my credit score and learned everything the hard way. I have an associates from community college that I acquired after I dropped out of the traditional undergrad route. I have no student debt. I own a vehicle, have a traditional mortage that I pay extra on, and have other comforts I can afford responsibly because I worked hard and made sacrifices.

My sister, who went through every step of hell with me, has her PHD plus some from an Ivy League school and has carved out great successes for herself. As a kid, she applied for every scholarship and grant she possibly could and paid $0 for her education because she worked hard and made sacrifices.

I hire kids every week who don’t have anything more than a highschool education or GED. In five years those kids are making six figures in a secure industry (shout out to the trades!).

There’s an overwhelming amount of excuses, but there are very few times there aren’t solutions.

I’ll get off my soapbox now.

[DownYonder]

@Pennywell_Bay

Funny for this pic that the wraps are not correct anyway- since the velcro is not pointed to the back of the horse… (besides looking just ridiculous)

I’m guessing that pic was taken in Europe, where counter-clockwise wraps are very common.

[Jealoushe]

@Live_Wire

because she worked hard and made sacrifices.

I hire kids every week who don’t have anything more than a highschool education or GED. In five years those kids are making six figures in a secure industry (shout out to the trades!).

There’s an overwhelming amount of excuses, but there are very few times there aren’t solutions.

Ooof the old “ if you work hard enough you can have anything” trope.

Yes hard work gets you somewhere, but there’s a lot more to it than that.

[Marigold]

@Live_Wire

@Marigold

Especially in the horse world, there will always be children in very wealthy families who will never have to worry about any of this.

I hate this generalization.

I apologize, but I’m not sure I understand the generalization I made in my post - the portion you quoted was (I thought) quite a specific and limited circumstance that very much does not represent the general population of young people these days.

If I am understanding your point correctly, it is that:

@Live_Wire

Being Gen Z or Gen Alpha, or even a Millenial, doesn’t give you a hall pass from struggling or having to make sacrifices.

I agree completely. In fact, bar a very specific and fortunate set of circumstances, I don’t think the younger generations have any other choice but to struggle and make sacrifices if they want any amount of success. In my post, I was attempting to say what I think you are saying: that the sacrifices you and your sister made are significant, and that is what is required these days to be free of student debt, own a vehicle, and have a mortgage. Those sacrifices are, frankly, more than what previous generations had to sacrifice to achieve the same end goal. My post was made in response to a post that said that kids these days did not have to face “as many hardships” in the past. I think that is incorrect. From reading your post, I still think that. Am I misinterpreting your words?

[Live_Wire]

Absolutely! But you can’t expect to be successful without putting in the work. That’s just part of the equation.

[Live_Wire]

The generalization that there are wealthy kids specifically or especially in the horse world. Yes, it’s an elite sport, but there are wealthy kids playing football, too.

I think there are a lot more advocates for children living in less ideal environments or unstable homes. There are more shelters and programs in place now than there were 10-15 years ago to help families in need.

Im replying from my phone so not quite as organized, but mostly I don’t understand why so many people have adopted the mentality that it should come easier. I’ve had very open conversations with my parents (dad is first generation from Russia) and grandparents over the years and I don’t think they struggled any less than we do to secure physiological necessities but that might just be my experiences.

To add though, and this might be what you’re getting at, it boggles my mind that it’s not easier and we still have to fight this hard when we do all the right things. You’d think it would be more progressive, instead there is so many more requirements and red tape. And god forbid you try to start a business from the ground up… it’s virtually impossible. That’s a whole rabbit hole in itself.

[Montanas_Girl]

@Jealoushe

Studies have shown that the heat from wraps and boots is insignificant for the time the boots are on the horse being worked. As long as they are removed immediately afterward the leg has no more risk of damage then without boots.

I love my polo wraps, but this is not true. Studies have, in fact, shown the opposite of what you stated. Wraps and boots retain significant amounts of heat, well above the temperature required for tissue damage.

I still love my boots and wraps. But I only use them in situations where the risk of interference is very high (in my case, reining and cutting/cow horse maneuvers) and leave them off for regular riding.

[Xanthoria]

A friend of mine just sent me a photo of myself, age 14, getting ready to go, drag hunting, sitting on my pony, all dressed up and holding a glass of hot spiced wine at the pre-meet. Because getting slightly drunk and then hooning around across country has no age boundaries in the UK!

[Jealoushe]

Actually there are studies that show that the heat created is a low risk to increase injury risk when the wraps are removed directly after work. I can go for a dive to find them online but I honestly don’t care enough lol

[Montanas_Girl]

I’m sorry, but you’re wrong. This is a lay person summary of the most recent study on the subject: https://thehorse.com/1101094/do-boots-and-wraps-overheat-horses-legs/. The data was presented at the 2021 Equine Science Society (of which I’m a member) meeting.

[Jealoushe]

The actual study I read had a lot more details, not sure if that’s exact study because I read a few. But in the data it showed removing boots after a ride cool the legs back to a temperature where there was little to no risk of damage.

Hot boots left on? Agree with that.

[Montanas_Girl]

I’ve actually discussed this with the researchers in question. Any boot or wrap heats the soft tissues up to a temperature capable of doing damage. Yes, getting the boots off as quickly as possible, followed y the immediate application of cold water, can mitigate this damage. But the potential still exists. Therefore, leg protection should only be used for short periods of time and only when the risk of interference is higher than the risk of overheating.