Whole Grains vs Commercial Feeds

[CELook]

@iJump

Interesting. I was always told oats weren’t that great for ulcers, although I haven’t actually done any research on this.

Is her reasoning that this is some sort of digestive reset? Sort of like when people fast?

Yes, it is my understanding that oats have better digestibility than some manufactured feeds so the oats don’t end up as undigested starch in the hindgut.

I started looking for a new feed to switch him to, but found that many contain ingredients on his ‘intolerant’ list. So far he is doing well on the new feed regimen. He is typically a very sensitive horse, but we’ve been getting some very productive rides in recently, I’m assuming because his stomach actually feels good instead of irritated. So if it continues to go well, mind as well just leave it as is. If not, then I will try something else.

[Scribbler]

Out of all the true grains, oats has a better nutritional profile for horses than barley, corn, or wheat. I wouldn’t want to feed a pellet that had those last as its main ingredients.

Horses can digest a certain amount of starch/ sugar in the small intestine. Trouble can come when you overload the ability of the small intestine and undigested sugars get into the cecum/ large intestine and disrupt the gut flora.

Obviously way excessive sugars like when horse breaks into feedroom overnight and eats a bag of oats can cause laminitis and/or colic.

I would think individual horses have different tolerances and that they can adapt to more sugar over time. Some horses get diarrhea just from hay being high sugar!

It’s interesting that oats balances alfalfa so nicely.

I feed everything as a mash with hot water which hopefully makes the oats more digestible. Though at the moment, I’m only feeding one cup of oats a day so its hardly a problem. I find if maresy gets no oats at all, she gets a bit dopey.

[JB]

@Scribbler

I feed everything as a mash with hot water which hopefully makes the oats more digestible.

Processing of oats - any processing - doesn’t improve digestibility to any significant degree.

[Scribbler]

@JB

Processing of oats - any processing - doesn’t improve digestibility to any significant degree.

Oh interesting. Not even flatted?

The oats in the hot mash can end up quite soft, almost edible by humans. I would think that might start digestion in the small intestine sooner? But no?

[JB]

Not even rolled/crimped, or steamed

Now, if the horse can’t chew well enough to break the hull, then processing them to do that head of time will improve digestion for that horse, but the same processing won’t make a real difference to the horse who chews well.

https://academic.oup.com/jn/article/128/12/2698S/4724374

ecent work, conducted mainly in Germany (Meyer et al. 1993 and 1995), looked at the effects of processing on prececal starch digestibility. Considerable individual variability in prececal starch digestion was shown to be a result in part of chewing activity and amylase activity (Kienzle 1994, Meyer et al. 1995). In general, processing had relatively little effect on the prececal digestion of oat starch (∼80–90%) but it had a significant effect on barley and, in particular, on corn prececal starch digestibility, increasing from ∼30 to 50 and 90% for whole, ground and popped corn, respectively

That is specifically referring to the starch component, but the same applies to the other nutrients in general, in their respective digestion areas.

[iJump]

A quick search gave me these values for oats…

53% starch, 12% protein, 5% fat and 12% fiber

Would this be roughly the same for all different ‘brands’ of oats?

[Scribbler]

@iJump

A quick search gave me these values for oats…

53% starch, 12% protein, 5% fat and 12% fiber

Would this be roughly the same for all different ‘brands’ of oats?

Roughly. You’d need to test the exact oats if you wanted precise. I’d expect strain of oats, growing conditions etc might alter a little bit. But most food stuffs even for human consumption go on a nutrition table somewhere that is an average. How much Vitamin C do you think that mealy pink hothouse tomato really has by the time it reaches your salad plates?

[JB]

@Scribbler

How much Vitamin C do you think that mealy pink hothouse tomato really has by the time it reaches your salad plates?

Ugh, thanks for putting the image in my head of something I avoid at nearly all costs - store-bought regular tomatoes :dead:

In addition to that (Vit C does degrade pretty quickly as fruits and veggies age), consider the reduced nutrition a lot of modern hybrids have as other more desirable things - size, sweetness, shelf life, early maturity, color - were selected for.

[Seagram]

Had a horse a few years ago in the barn where I worked that could not tolerate soy in his grain. We tried many different feeds, and the only thing that worked for him was oats. Anything with soy gave him terrible diarrhea, and it was a trial and error process that led us to figure that out. Hard to find any grain mix without soy in it. He was in intense work as an event horse, so hay alone would not have sustained him, never mind he was a pretty hard keeper and super picky to begin with! Think super high strung Tb! But he absolutely loved his oats, it was the one grain that he would actually polish up his feed pan.

[Sansena]

@merrygoround

I find it amazing that there are people out there who make equine nutrition their life’s work. They sell their expertise to companies who make commercial grain mixes, companies such as Blue Seal, Purina,Triple Crown etc.

They know the variance in nutritional values in different varieties of corn, oats barley etc.

And yet there are those who blithely go on their way, second guessing them.

Me, I quietly settle for their estimate of the most intelligent feed regimen for each particular horse with which I am coping.

I don’t think it’s disbelief in what the nutritionists are saying that makes folks run from commercially manufactured grains. It’s a distrust in those manufacturers’ QC. Let’s face it… the companies that can afford to hire the ‘best’ nutritionists for certain species are also running different grains through the same mills for those different species. Which in and of itself can create problems if a few $10/hr employees don’t feel like cleaning the mill properly in between recipes.

Not to mention certain recipe ingredients many horses will be super allergic to: alfalfa, Timothy and soy being just a few.

I can certainly see the draw in scooping your own ‘grain’ from actual raw grain product.

[JB]

IME you’re both right. Some have a real need to avoid things that are very common in commercial feeds - soy, alfalfa, beet pulp, molasses. And while there may be a good handful of products without those, they are often not available to that person.

But there are absolutely people who think “whole food” is the way to go, and think they’re doing the right thing with random amounts of oats and rose hips and alfalfa pellets and sunflower seeds and Renew Gold to “round out the nutrition”.

It’s not even about what the nutritionists are saying, as most people don’t call to talk to one, and most who do just want someone to tell them what product to use and how much to feed. It’s about too many people thinking they can do the job better

And yes there are people who will not ever feed something that’s not milled in an ionophore-free mill, so choose to DIY (often badly). Some of them do seek help.

[Palm_Beach]

I wouldn’t blame the feed companies or equine nutritionists, I’d blame the people who are taking the horse so far out of it’s natural environment. For 30 million years horses evolved to live outside in a variety of weather conditions and eat grass. Modern horsekeeping, to some, involves confining them to tiny stalls for lengthy periods and feeding them diets that may deviate pretty far from all grass. Or the grass they are eating is too lush for them.

[Scribbler]

I know so many people who present as “concerned” about nutrition both human and horse but don’t even understand the basics.

They will do things like put a horse on stall rest with soft tissue injury on a low nutrition low protein hay and no supplements so “the protein doesn’t make him crazy.” Then wonder why he never heals.

They will put an obese horse on 24/7 hay and wait for it to 'self regulate" and lose weight.

They will pay double the going rate for glyphosphate free grass hay (hint: all grass hay is glyphosphate free).

Etc etc.

[Montanas_Girl]

@merrygoround

I find it amazing that there are people out there who make equine nutrition their life’s work. They sell their expertise to companies who make commercial grain mixes, companies such as Blue Seal, Purina,Triple Crown etc.

They know the variance in nutritional values in different varieties of corn, oats barley etc.

And yet there are those who blithely go on their way, second guessing them.

Me, I quietly settle for their estimate of the most intelligent feed regimen for each particular horse with which I am coping.

I’m one of those people who chose to make equine nutrition my life’s work (although I work for a university, not a feed company), and I’m every bit as mystified as you.

[Palm_Beach]

@Montanas_Girl

I’m one of those people who chose to make equine nutrition my life’s work (although I work for a university, not a feed company), and I’m every bit as mystified as you.

Thank you. I’m not in the business, and my head gets a bit boggled when you can read about human nutrition all day long and find articles that contradict each other all day long. What is scary is that the people who are self educated truly believe that they are experts, and people believe them. Thank goodness they are not building bridges.

[suzyq]

I’m doing a hybrid approach. I feed ration balancer at the appropriate amount, then add calories via alfalfa pellets and oats as needed. I supplement with ground flax. Mostly I do this because I have a hard keeper picky eater, he licks the bowl clean with this mix. The easy keeper just gets the rb plus a little alfalfa pellets. I feed unlimited grass hay but don’t have a good supply for alfalfa, thus the alfalfa pellets. I tried ultium and triple crown for my hard keeper and although i loved both feeds, he just wouldn’t finish his meals. It’s easier if you can find a bagged feed that meets your needs!

[candyappy]

@iJump

Grain diet… oats, barley, corn etc

Commercial diet… pelleted or extruded feeds

I mix my own animal feeds ( breeding goats & dairy cow) using whole grains ( corn, oats , soybean meal) and add alfalfa pellets, dried molasses, flax seed and BOSS.

My 2 current horses are easy keepers , so I feed 1/2 cup flax with oats and alfalfa pellets and just a cup total at that . IF they needed more to maintain weight than I would certainly mix my own for them as well ( I have in the past).

They get an all purpose mineral fed per directions.

I like knowing exactly what they are eating.

[Scribbler]

@Palm Beach

Thank you. I’m not in the business, and my head gets a bit boggled when you can read about human nutrition all day long and find articles that contradict each other all day long. What is scary is that the people who are self educated truly believe that they are experts, and people believe them. Thank goodness they are not building bridges.

Yes, I think this is why having a reasonably solid knowledge base helps put all the partial and emerging and conflicting information into perspective. It’s generally a good rule of thumb that any new or amazing findings should be taken with a grain of salt until they have become commonly accepted wisdom. And yes, pay attention to the source of the information.

[deltawave]

Bagged commercial feed here, usually Purina because the local feed store sells it and I like to give them my business. Rarely I will add some oats if a horse loses interest in its feed or has trouble keeping weight on. Haven’t come across either problem in many years. I am very fortunate to have great hay so often mine are getting nothing more than a ration balancer to get the micro-stuff into them in sufficient quantities.