Why are ear plugs evil??

[BigMama1]

@skydy

Again, apparently the people who made the rule (that the OP feels is unfair) feel that a dressage horse is unsuitable if it is so reactive to noise that is has to be ridden with ear plugs. I said nothing about horses being “miserable”. Just that they are not suitable for competition dressage according to the people that wrote the rules.

Which is why the OP would like to see the rule change. And at some point in the near future Inwould imagine she’ll get her wish.

[BigMama1]

@KBC

The opportunities in the arse end of nowhere are limited!

Reading some of the replies I prefer to think they belong to the general ‘YOU’ the ‘YOU’ at large…

This one however…see she is not miserable at shows, no more than she is miserable anywhere else, in fact the other day when the barn was as busy as I have seen it, she was actually more relaxed, maybe because of the general hubbub of people and horses…a general noisy but steady environment.

We are actually doing pretty well at shows, started out in 2015 with Walk Trot classes, first one ever together, “tense horse and tense rider” was the comment, moved up a level in 2016, and again last year, dabbling at first level, where a couple of times we got “Sympathetically ridden” which I was very pleased with.

Again, there is not much choice around here so we take what is on offer And this mare has taught me so much in the last 2 1/2 years, it has been fantastic…I am a heck of a lot better rider than I have ever been, because she demands that of me.

Yes I will pursue a rule change, it is a multi pronged attack, the shows we go to are run under Provincial Association Rules, Sanctioned by Equine Canada, and also by Western Dressage Association of Canada, and following some arguments last year, they are making it clearer in the show rules, which trumps…one small instance, WSDAC recommends, but does not mandate the wearing of hard hats. Any shows sanctioned by SHF this year over rides that and requires all Western Riders to wear Hard Hats, but other wise the WSDAC rules apply.

I would certainly prefer to have poms for her, but most rides we are fine, until we aren’t!!!

KBC where in Canada are you located?

[KBC]

@BigMama1

KBC where in Canada are you located?

Right in the middle, Saskatchewan

[atr]

I’m pushing 60, in fairly good shape for my age but about as far from a natural athlete as a human can be, and things don’t always work as well as they did when I was in my 20’s. Which I can only assume is what many of the respondees to this thread are! (Don’t worry, if you are lucky, at my age you’ll still be riding and competing, and will become more mellow, like fine wine or old cheese, as you age.)

Oh, and my current ride is a big, sound-reactive warmblood who also just hates wind. So maybe you should just shoot me now.

Darned straight I ride in a sound deadening bonnet at home when the snow is sliding off the roof, when the construction site next door is going full blast, when the wind is howling, things like that. I’m not stupid, I don’t want to get hurt.

I also ride him in a bonnet at shows where it is permitted to do so–outside, in the summer.–(a word to the wise… even a light cotton one can make a difference if you don’t shave the insides of their ears.) Less braiding to do as well.

You can also be sure we will be sporting our neoprene ears at the BNT clinic we are participating in at a new and scary place next month. I’d like for us to be able to concentrate on what I’m paying for rather than the noises in the barn aisle.

Somehow, making the whole experience more enjoyable for the two of us doesn’t seem like a high crime or indeed a sign of particular incompetence. I’ve owned and ridden many horses over the last 50-odd years, and this is the first one that I’ve felt had a big benefit from bonneting up.

[skydy]

@BigMama1

Which is why the OP would like to see the rule change. And at some point in the near future Inwould imagine she’ll get her wish.

Yes.I believe I mentioned several pages ago that a rule change will have to be lobbied for if the OP and other people feel the rule is unfair. I have no idea if the PTB will go along with the desire by some people to that have the rule changed.

The rule seems to originate from an assessment of the directives, the description of the purpose of dressage, and the expected results from following the training pyramid. Changing it may be a tough row to hoe.

Who knows, times are changing but the pendulum seems to be swinging back to a more relaxed horse and rider. The question is, will the PTB allow a horse to be artificially relaxed with earplugs, when they haven’t allowed it in the past.

It will be interesting to see what they decide if enough people really want to see that rule change…

I’m surprised to read comparisons about what’s allowed in jumpers. Comparing allowable gear between Dressage and Jumpers? The ideal horse in each of the two disciplines are quite different from one another, obviously.

There are no marks for “submission” no scores for “gaits” etc… in jumpers. Gag bits, hackamores, martingales etc…that are ubiquitous in the Jumpers are not allowed in Dressage, because the Dressage horse when properly trained, according to the rules, is expected not to require them.

[right_horse_at_the_right_time]

@atr

I’m pushing 60, in fairly good shape for my age but about as far from a natural athlete as a human can be, and things don’t always work as well as they did when I was in my 20’s. Which I can only assume is what many of the respondees to this thread are! (Don’t worry, if you are lucky, at my age you’ll still be riding and competing, and will become more mellow, like fine wine or old cheese, as you age.)

Oh, and my current ride is a big, sound-reactive warmblood who also just hates wind. So maybe you should just shoot me now.

Darned straight I ride in a sound deadening bonnet at home when the snow is sliding off the roof, when the construction site next door is going full blast, when the wind is howling, things like that. I’m not stupid, I don’t want to get hurt.

I also ride him in a bonnet at shows where it is permitted to do so–outside, in the summer.–(a word to the wise… even a light cotton one can make a difference if you don’t shave the insides of their ears.) Less braiding to do as well.

You can also be sure we will be sporting our neoprene ears at the BNT clinic we are participating in at a new and scary place next month. I’d like for us to be able to concentrate on what I’m paying for rather than the noises in the barn aisle.

Somehow, making the whole experience more enjoyable for the two of us doesn’t seem like a high crime or indeed a sign of particular incompetence. I’ve owned and ridden many horses over the last 50-odd years, and this is the first one that I’ve felt had a big benefit from bonneting up.

You do know that you can use a bonnet inside now too, in all classes, right? :). And there is nothing that I can find in the USEF or any other rules that identifies a material that cannot or can be used…so neoprene allowed.

[right_horse_at_the_right_time]

@skydy

Yes.I believe I mentioned several pages ago that a rule change will have to be lobbied for if the OP and other people feel the rule is unfair. I have no idea if the PTB will go along with the desire by some people to that have the rule changed.

The rule seems to originate from an assessment of the directives, the description of the purpose of dressage, and the expected results from following the training pyramid. Changing it may be a tough row to hoe.

Who knows, times are changing but the pendulum seems to be swinging back to a more relaxed horse and rider. The question is, will the PTB allow a horse to be artificially relaxed with earplugs, when they haven’t allowed it in the past.

It will be interesting to see what they decide if enough people really want to see that rule change…

I’m surprised to read comparisons about what’s allowed in jumpers. Comparing allowable gear between Dressage and Jumpers? The ideal horse in each of the two disciplines are quite different from one another, obviously.

There are no marks for “submission” no scores for “gaits” etc… in jumpers. Gag bits, hackamores, martingales etc…that are ubiquitous in the Jumpers are not allowed in Dressage, because the Dressage horse when properly trained, according to the rules, is expected not to require them.

is my horse “artificially sound” with shoes? “Artificially submissive or obedient” with a double? “Artificially healthy appearing” if I use shine spray? Artificially ok with bugs but not sounds is the goal according to your interpretation of what the PTB think?

To clarify: the dressage horse is expected not to USE ear plugs except in awards ceremonies. But the fact that they are allowed in ceremonies suggests that the “PTB” are quite aware that they ARE serving a purpose for some noise sensitive horses as according to your logic, the well trained dressage horse IS expected to require them during awards. And, since we can never predict what kind of noises come at a show, it would follow that this purpose would exist 100% of the time, not just during awards ceremonies.

[yaya]

But the environment at awards ceremonies is very different than during a dressage class. There is cheering, clapping, sometimes stomping, peppy music during the victory lap, and the horses are not in there alone as they are during a test. Since the conditions are different, so are the rules. The electric atmosphere is why some people, including BNTs at international events, choose to ride a different horse for the awards ceremony.

[BigMama1]

@yaya

But the environment at awards ceremonies is very different than during a dressage class. There is cheering, clapping, sometimes stomping, peppy music during the victory lap, and the horses are not in there alone as they are during a test. Since the conditions are different, so are the rules. The electric atmosphere is why some people, including BNTs at international events, choose to ride a different horse for the awards ceremony.

But following the earlier logic, that shouldn’t matter. If submission and superb training were the hallmarks of every dressage horse, then they should be fine in any environment. Yet we know that’s not the case. Honestly there’s a stronger argument for banning spurs than ear poms. I’m guessing the rule will change in the next cycle or two.

[right_horse_at_the_right_time]

@yaya

But the environment at awards ceremonies is very different than during a dressage class. There is cheering, clapping, sometimes stomping, peppy music during the victory lap, and the horses are not in there alone as they are during a test. Since the conditions are different, so are the rules. The electric atmosphere is why some people, including BNTs at international events, choose to ride a different horse for the awards ceremony.

Of course it is a different environment. So we should expect our horses not to remember their training in this environment?

I have nothing against ear plugs, let me state that right now. What I have a problem with is that there seems to be an admission that they help, and that horses might react poorly in an awards ceremony, which is OK, but they cannot act poorly due to noise in a test. So apparently they are supposed to tolerate up to a certain point… But then anything above that level of excitement/noise, which varies from show to show, is expected to be too scary to Deal with without the air plugs. What I’m suggesting is that the level is different for every horse.

I ride with a whip, but I wish I didn’t have to. I shouldn’t have to, and maybe at some point I won’t have to, but I think it’s not nice. Do I use it, yes.

Whips are prohibited a championship classes. I have always found that interesting… If we are going to change up the rules for the championships, why not make that universal.

[MysticOakRanch]

@right horse at the right time

Of course it is a different environment. So we should expect our horses not to remember their training in this environment?

And I’d take that a step further and point out that in some disciplines, that awards ceremony environment is the normal show environment. So an Arabian or a Morgan (crazy breed shows, I’ve been to a few) can handle that environment, but our dressage horses can’t? In Europe, some of the shows are loud and racuous too. We are much more sedate and cautious here in the US at our dressage shows.

You can either say “the horse is trained, or it is not, hell or highwater be damned, if anything makes them spook it is a training issue”. Or you can say “let’s try to make it a bit more pleasant for horse and rider, and allow ear plugs”. I’m in the 2nd camp, and I think it is a silly rule. And I’ll repeat, we’ve seen a lot of rule changes over the years that support the idea of allowing equipment that is more comfortable to the horse - different bits, different bridles, etc.

[Gestalt]

@skydy

Who knows, times are changing but the pendulum seems to be swinging back to a more relaxed horse and rider. The question is, will the PTB allow a horse to be artificially relaxed with earplugs, when they haven’t allowed it in the past.

:lol: :lol: I snipped your post down to this funny line. Artificially relaxed due to ear plugs? :lol: Oh dear, have you ever worn ear plugs? They don’t “relax” you or the horse. They simply take the hard edge off of noise.

[KBC]

Another thought about ‘artificial relaxation’ I tried some Omega Alpha Chill with Fergie, good job we tried at home, made her worse, BUT that would be a totally legal relaxation, seeing as it does not test. Many many people are happy to use supplements, etc to try and ‘take the edge off’ to me sound dampening is no different…

[right_horse_at_the_right_time]

@KBC

Another thought about ‘artificial relaxation’ I tried some Omega Alpha Chill with Fergie, good job we tried at home, made her worse, BUT that would be a totally legal relaxation, seeing as it does not test. Many many people are happy to use supplements, etc to try and ‘take the edge off’ to me sound dampening is no different…

Any substance designed to do this is against the spirit of the rule and therefore illegal; the fact that it doesn’t test is irrelevant except that you won’t be caught.

[netg]

I’ve been saying I believe the riders who think they can’t ride misbehaviors CAN if they get the right instruction.

As far as the rule itself, though - I don’t have an issue with earplugs being allowed through a rule change. I think that there are MANY riders out there who will use it as a crutch instead of learning what they need (and possibly without an instructor who can teach them what they need to learn.) However, I think rules should be written to reward good riding and work, and see zero reason to start making them punitive. Perhaps this rule is.

I’ll also say that I think there are some fundamental flaws in the breeding of warmbloods and interpretation of “good temperament.” I’ve worked with many breeds, and think there is far more failure as far as temperament among warmbloods I’ve known than any other breed - and I have worked with enough Arabians, TBs, other breeds “known” for difficulty to believe that. There are also, obviously, some FABULOUS warmbloods out there. In many ways, to me this discussion gets into what should be bred, and what should be considered a good temperament. Perhaps it all comes back to what is being scored at shows…

[KBC]

@right horse at the right time

Any substance designed to do this is against the spirit of the rule and therefore illegal; the fact that it doesn’t test is irrelevant except that you won’t be caught.

That is a very interesting thought, where exactly would you draw the line there? Plenty of feeds that we use to ‘give energy’ to the lazy horse, herbal supplements to improve joint condition, etc…

The fact that something does not test means that it is not illegal surely…could be a whole new and fascinating discussion.

[right_horse_at_the_right_time]

@KBC

That is a very interesting thought, where exactly would you draw the line there? Plenty of feeds that we use to ‘give energy’ to the lazy horse, herbal supplements to improve joint condition, etc…

The fact that something does not test means that it is not illegal surely…could be a whole new and fascinating discussion.

Not a thought, but the rule ;).

[CanteringCarrot]

@netg

I’ve been saying I believe the riders who think they can’t ride misbehaviors CAN if they get the right instruction.

As far as the rule itself, though - I don’t have an issue with earplugs being allowed through a rule change. I think that there are MANY riders out there who will use it as a crutch instead of learning what they need (and possibly without an instructor who can teach them what they need to learn.) However, I think rules should be written to reward good riding and work, and see zero reason to start making them punitive. Perhaps this rule is.

I’ll also say that I think there are some fundamental flaws in the breeding of warmbloods and interpretation of “good temperament.” I’ve worked with many breeds, and think there is far more failure as far as temperament among warmbloods I’ve known than any other breed - and I have worked with enough Arabians, TBs, other breeds “known” for difficulty to believe that. There are also, obviously, some FABULOUS warmbloods out there. In many ways, to me this discussion gets into what should be bred, and what should be considered a good temperament. Perhaps it all comes back to what is being scored at shows…

Amen to all of that.

[x-halt-salute]

@Gestalt

:lol: :lol: I snipped your post down to this funny line. Artificially relaxed due to ear plugs? :lol: Oh dear, have you ever worn ear plugs? They don’t “relax” you or the horse. They simply take the hard edge off of noise.

So true.

I’ve been doing some personal experimentation (on myself – I’m against animal testing, of course) to see if earplugs can induce artificial relaxation. As an apartment dweller and frequent international traveler, I have had a wide variety of experimental stimuli to test them against.

If top of the line, hermetically sealing, silicone earplugs don’t significantly extinguish the noises associated with the nextdoor couple’s experiments in kink, or the upstairs musician’s inspired wee hours jam sessions, or the home-alone doggo that cries all night, or the sinus-pressure-tortured baby in seat 27B … And if a food-chain-topping primate armed with basic meditation practice, TylenolPM, and an earnest desire to chill the eff out cannot find any artificial relaxation in earplugs …

Then I’d expect that at best the little fuzzy or foamy balls that people cram into horse ears might knock a half dozen decibels off the highest amplitude auditory stimuli, but won’t render an equine profoundly deaf, and have woefully little hope of magically generating submission and relaxation in a prey species evolved to bolt first and ask questions later. Unless, that is, the horse in question is already (through good riding and a base of good training) seeking confidence from its rider and trying hard to be obedient, in which case horse and rider have done their homework on submission and relaxation and there’s nothing artificial about it.

My horse is staunchly anti-earplug (she tried them one 4th of July when we were taking heavy bottle rocket fire on the front lines of a redneck 1812 overture; it merely added ear-shyness to her independence day PTSD). I, however, find them to be pretty marginal as a relaxation aid, but nevertheless am all for them if they diminish the involuntary, physiological stress response that some horses experience in response to high amplitude auditory stimuli. Why not give our long-suffering equine partners a little break if they have an abject and innate terror of loud noises?

[skydy]

@right horse at the right time

is my horse “artificially sound” with shoes? “Artificially submissive or obedient” with a double? “Artificially healthy appearing” if I use shine spray? Artificially ok with bugs but not sounds is the goal according to your interpretation of what the PTB think?

To clarify: the dressage horse is expected not to USE ear plugs except in awards ceremonies. But the fact that they are allowed in ceremonies suggests that the “PTB” are quite aware that they ARE serving a purpose for some noise sensitive horses as according to your logic, the well trained dressage horse IS expected to require them during awards. And, since we can never predict what kind of noises come at a show, it would follow that this purpose would exist 100% of the time, not just during awards ceremonies.

The PTB apparently don’t want them used in the actual test. I am guessing that the submission and relaxation that is expected and scored in the Dressage test is the reason for the earplug ban in competition. The award ceremonies are obviously not being scored so no competitive advantage there.