I’ve ridden to the FEI on a pony, and while I couldn’t do the CDIs for obvious reasons, I respect the rule.
Pony culture in Europe is meant for juniors, and the expectation that if you are competing those divisions that you are representing yourself as either a professional or an up and coming one. Ponies allow that in those specific divisions.
Then there’s the market, which is not unlike our hunter pony market here. It creates and help maintain a better pricing by providing a specific venue.
A “pony” is by definition an equine that measures less than 14.2 hands…or in FEI metric terms 1.48 meters, or 148 cm.
A meter = 39.37 inches
1.48 meters = 58.27 inches
(don’t think that a horse stick is accurate to 2 decimal places)
58.27 inches = 14.57 hands or 14 hands 2.27 inches.—eg., round to 14h2"
For a smaller or petite rider one can find a small horse or large pony that technically measures just a hair taller than the “official” demarcation for pony (like 14h3"), so they would be legal in FEI competition.
[QUOTE=JLR1;8256794]
Aside from the cuteness factor I really am curious as to why this is a rule? It almost seems like it would be unfair to petite adult riders who may be more physically suited to ponies?[/QUOTE]
I too would find this interesting to know.
Is it really because riding a pony is for kids and adults who aspire to be that level should be riding a horse?
It just seems like a strange thing to write a rule for.
[QUOTE=tempichange;8258172]
…Then there’s the market, which is not unlike our hunter pony market here. It creates and help maintain a better pricing by providing a specific venue.[/QUOTE]
I’m not sure I follow your point.
You’re saying that the dressage ponies in Europe have more value due to being marketed to children and young people, and that the pony prices would decrease if more adults were riding ponies in dressage, too?
[QUOTE=pluvinel;8258734]
A “pony” is by definition an equine that measures less than 14.2 hands…or in FEI metric terms 1.48 meters, or 148 cm.
A meter = 39.37 inches
1.48 meters = 58.27 inches
(don’t think that a horse stick is accurate to 2 decimal places)
58.27 inches = 14.57 hands or 14 hands 2.27 inches.—eg., round to 14h2"
For a smaller or petite rider one can find a small horse or large pony that technically measures just a hair taller than the “official” demarcation for pony (like 14h3"), so they would be legal in FEI competition.[/QUOTE]
Uh thanks for the lesson in measurements and pony definitions. Not really useful to the question posed.
[QUOTE=normandy_shores;8259114]
Uh thanks for the lesson in measurements and pony definitions. Not really useful to the question posed.[/QUOTE]
YOU are missing the point. Which is that the definition of “pony” is an arbitrary measurement cut-off at 14h2." There are honies that are disqualified from competing as “ponies” because hover just above that magic number…and those horses/honies/non-ponies would be acceptable to be ridden in a CDI.
The OP asked why ponies can’t compete in CDI’s. The short answer is that’s the rule.
My point was that if someone wanted to ride a “small horse” in a CDI, all they needed is to have that equine measure a nano-inch more than the mystical number that defines the pony cut-off.
[QUOTE=pluvinel;8259424]
YOU are missing the point. Which is that the definition of “pony” is an arbitrary measurement cut-off at 14h2." There are honies that are disqualified from competing as “ponies” because hover just above that magic number…and those horses/honies/non-ponies would be acceptable to be ridden in a CDI.
The OP asked why ponies can’t compete in CDI’s. The short answer is that’s the rule.
My point was that if someone wanted to ride a “small horse” in a CDI, all they needed is to have that equine measure a nano-inch more than the mystical number that defines the pony cut-off.[/QUOTE]
Bolded mine. Are you saying what I think you are saying;)?
[QUOTE=pluvinel;8258734]
A “pony” is by definition an equine that measures less than 14.2 hands…or in FEI metric terms 1.48 meters, or 148 cm.
A meter = 39.37 inches
1.48 meters = 58.27 inches
(don’t think that a horse stick is accurate to 2 decimal places)
58.27 inches = 14.57 hands or 14 hands 2.27 inches.—eg., round to 14h2"
For a smaller or petite rider one can find a small horse or large pony that technically measures just a hair taller than the “official” demarcation for pony (like 14h3"), so they would be legal in FEI competition.[/QUOTE]
I did this math on page one, should have clicked to page 2 first!
My mare just squeaks over. She’s 14.3.
Majical numbers for majical horses.
[QUOTE=pluvinel;8259424]
The OP asked why ponies can’t compete in CDI’s. The short answer is that’s the rule. [/QUOTE]
I think you are now missing the point.
The question is more why is that the rule, not the type of question that the answer ‘because they said so and here is how to cheat your way around it’ answers it.
[QUOTE=trubandloki;8259555]
I think you are now missing the point.
The question is more why is that the rule, not the type of question that the answer ‘because they said so and here is how to cheat your way around it’ answers it.[/QUOTE]
Cheat??? Where did I say cheat?
Rules are rules. And the rules define a pony at 14h2."
Therefore — AS DEFINED BY THE RULES — any equine, regardless of breed or parentage that measures above that majical number, is qualified (by height at least) to compete in a CDI.
Just following the rules.
And why the rules? Because rules are made by committees. They usually have no “hard” logic behind them as they are compromises. Committees function by consensus trying to satisfy multiple constituencies.
[QUOTE=Silverbridge;8258761]
I’m not sure I follow your point.
You’re saying that the dressage ponies in Europe have more value due to being marketed to children and young people, and that the pony prices would decrease if more adults were riding ponies in dressage, too?[/QUOTE]
No, I’m saying the class gives a better marketing value since it highlights the ponies. I think it’s because of these classes that we have better quality ponies and more adults looking at them.
The rule sounds arbitrary and doesn’t make sense to me…look at eventing, Teddy competed at Rolex and the Pan Am games and did exceedingly well, he was a pony 14.1.
Is it because of the size in proportion to the ring and movements? Just trying to think of plausible explanations. Does a 13h pony have an advantage as far as bend and easy of a 10m circle, for instance, over a 17h horse? The pony would have more strides in which to package and prepare for movements, certainly, but would also have to prolong them accordingly. Just thoughts. Strange rule.
[QUOTE=JLR1;8261903]
The rule sounds arbitrary and doesn’t make sense to me…look at eventing, Teddy competed at Rolex and the Pan Am games and did exceedingly well, he was a pony 14.1.[/QUOTE]
Pony measurement is arbitrary - but it has been the arbitrary measurement forever. As for not allowing ponies at CDIs, also realize mules aren’t allowed. Zebras aren’t allowed. CDIs are specifically limited to horses. In Europe (which is where most of the FEI rules originate), ponies are for children, horses are for adults. So pony competitions are separate (I guess you could say separate but equal:lol:). It isn’t really an arbitrary rule, it is just the way it is.
And I don’t think Pluv is talking about cheating, she’s saying, if you want to do CDIs on a smaller mount, look at the 14.3 to 15.3 hand Hony sized mounts. There are plenty of options there - and sometimes you find better deals because that size is considered “too small” by the horse crowd, and “too big” by the pony crowd. I personally consider that the “just right” size (my mare is almost 15.2).
[QUOTE=TB or not TB?;8261946]
Is it because of the size in proportion to the ring and movements? Just trying to think of plausible explanations. Does a 13h pony have an advantage as far as bend and easy of a 10m circle, for instance, over a 17h horse? The pony would have more strides in which to package and prepare for movements, certainly, but would also have to prolong them accordingly. Just thoughts. Strange rule.[/QUOTE]
I’ve got a pony. While it is physically easier to have her travel on a 10-m circle than it was for my 17.3h gelding, that doesn’t mean she’s actually bending. Ponies are tricky, man.
[QUOTE=MysticOakRanch;8262626]
Pony measurement is arbitrary - but it has been the arbitrary measurement forever. As for not allowing ponies at CDIs, also realize mules aren’t allowed. Zebras aren’t allowed. CDIs are specifically limited to horses. In Europe (which is where most of the FEI rules originate), ponies are for children, horses are for adults. So pony competitions are separate (I guess you could say separate but equal:lol:). It isn’t really an arbitrary rule, it is just the way it is.
And I don’t think Pluv is talking about cheating, she’s saying, if you want to do CDIs on a smaller mount, look at the 14.3 to 15.3 hand Hony sized mounts. There are plenty of options there - and sometimes you find better deals because that size is considered “too small” by the horse crowd, and “too big” by the pony crowd. I personally consider that the “just right” size (my mare is almost 15.2).[/QUOTE]
Thank you!!!
Much better said than me.
[QUOTE=cnm161;8262636]
I’ve got a pony. While it is physically easier to have her travel on a 10-m circle than it was for my 17.3h gelding, that doesn’t mean she’s actually bending. Ponies are tricky, man.[/QUOTE]
^^THIS, in spades! Another thought as to the “why” part of the question: I wonder if it actually carries over from the jumping discipline where it would be “cruel” to ask a much smaller animal to jump big fences. Other than that, I really don’t have an answer. I have a couple of each (over and under) and I’ve never minded, simply because if one ever does get to the FEI levels (specifically GP), that will be enough for me. I have no aspirations to compete internationally.
[QUOTE=Beentheredonethat;8257703]
I think you should. Sounds like a fantastic idea. What a completely stupid rule. I totally agree everyone’s just shivering in their boots. Ponies would be done with the one tempis in 1/4 of the diagonal and have to do way more passage steps, and maybe they wouldn’t know what to do with a pirouette of 10 steps? Pshaw.[/QUOTE]
Your comments on the tempis and and passage are correct. However, the number of steps on a pirouette would not necessarily change. Since the pony’s body is shorter, there is less distance for his front legs to cover on the circumference of the pirouette. IF the pony was just a shrunken down horse and his proportions are the same as a horse, the number of pirouette steps would be the same.
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