Why do haul in lessons cost more than lessons in barn?

[Libby2563]

Agree with a lot of what has been said. It’s a wear-and-tear or facility-use fee that’s factored into board.

Some places do charge more for using a school horse. So in order of increasing expense, it goes boarder lesson on own horse > school horse lesson > haul-in.

It’s interesting to me that schoolhorse use would cost less than a haul-in. Wear-and-tear on a horse seems more significant to me than wear-and-tear on the arena, plus other people can still use the arena during a haul-in lesson whereas use of a schoolhorse is exclusive.

The place where I take jumping lessons charges the same for a haul-in or for the use of a schoolhorse ($10 extra). It surprises me that the schoolhorse surcharge is so low, especially because they don’t use their horses more than once a day. I think $10 is a steal for the fun horse I jump who has already taught me a lot. Haul-in fees are $10-15 around here so when I do start taking my own horse, $10 will seem fair too.

[findeight]

School horse prices are usually way too low because the usually beginner level non owner riders cant or won’t pay more. They are carried by barns as an enticement to lease or buy. That’s part of the reason they are disappearing along with the lesson factory type barns that used to be able to meet operating expenses off of them. That business model no longer works.

[EAY]

The lesson barn that I know that allows haul-ins has a tiered rate structure that gives discounts to boarders taking weekly lessons as opposed to charging extra for lesson horses or haul-ins (so I guess it has the same effect but might be more palatable for some). I believe the lesson price is the same for the latter two.

There are also three levels of instructors, with increasing fees as you get more advanced, to cover both the higher wages paid as well as the greater wear-and-tear on the school horses.

People who have partial or full leases on school horses also get discounts on lessons. And you get additional discounts if you participate regularly in barn shows and other activities, so sometimes it seems like you need to be a CPA to figure out what your bill should be :lol:

[Janet]

I expect to pay a haul in fee, whether it is a barn with lesson program, or not - whether I am coming in for a lesson with a trainer or just coming to use the facility because the weather is bad outside.

Trailers coming in and out, especially in bad weather, put a lot of wear and tear on the driveway and parking area (especially in bad weather). Far more than a car bringing a boarder or someone taking a lesson on a horse already at the barn.

This is independent of using the fee structure to encourage people to become boarders.

[yellowbritches]

The last barn I managed was a popular haul in facility. We didn’t really have an in house trainer, but we did have a lot of people haul in to have lessons in our rings or on a xc field. On any given weekend day, we could have half a dozen or more trailers in and out of our property, using rings and xc jumps, which required maintenance on EVERYTHING, from dragging the rings to maintaining the driveway, to replacing poles (one trainer seemed to have a penchant for setting up things that caused her students to break rails!). On top of that, I spent a good part of my day answering the phone and responding to emails and scheduling ring and xc times. Work that I wouldn’t have had to do if the place had been closed to outside use. Even if we’d have had our own trainer, all the same wear and tear would have applied, particularly if it was a trainer that had a lot of outside clients. When you have 15-18 horses on a property and 5-10 more come in to use the place on any given day, it is A LOT more wear and tear on a property than just the horses that live there.

[16_Hands]

I recently changed trainers; my former trainer owned the barn and didn’t charge me a haul in fee. However, my new trainer does but I don’t mind, she’s good enough to be worth the extra. I expect to pay a haul in, just part of doing business.

[BeeHoney]

I think that a look at a barn’s books (monthly expenses for mortgage, staffing, maintenance, repairs and insurance) plus a month of being in charge of arena maintenance (grooming, moving/maintaining jumps) would cure anyone of ever complaining about a trailer-in/ring fee again.

[Backstage]

[QUOTE=findeight;8971540]
School horse prices are usually way too low because the usually beginner level non owner riders cant or won’t pay more. They are carried by barns as an enticement to lease or buy. That’s part of the reason they are disappearing along with the lesson factory type barns that used to be able to meet operating expenses off of them. That business model no longer works.[/QUOTE]

This, I think, is the real answer.

I think its fairly obvious why a lesson for a haul-in might be more expensive than one for a boarder - the boarder’s wear and tear on the facility is already factored into the board rate.

OP’s question, as I understand it, is more specific - why is the haul-in rate higher than a lesson on a school horse given that the school horse lesson rate presumptuously also needs to factor in the cost of maintaining/feeding the horse, whereas the haul-in lessoner already covers those expenses for his/her own horse.

The answer to THAT question, in my view, is that the lessons on school horses are meant to be the gateway to more expensive services.

[DrBeckett]

I think most of the reasons posted here are ridiculous. Wear and tear from the horse’s hooves? Really? Oh, the horse is moving dirt around, where as the lesson horse would not have. The trailer is parked in the driveway wearing out the tarmac? I think the OP is saying that a lesson horse is now available for more income (forget the boarding situation, they’re different altogether). You can run more than one lesson at a time in many rings. There’s gonna be wear and tear on the facilities regardless of what horse is ridden. It costs them nothing for her to bring the animal in compared to a school horse.

[SnicklefritzG]

To follow up with what Findeight and Backstage said:

Pricing doesn’t always reflect the actual value of the services. The true value of a lesson on a school horse doesn’t always reflect the total value or cost associated with the use of that horse. If it did, I agree that the beginner riders would probably not take the lessons. Therefore, it is not always practical for the BO, BM, or trainer to charge the full day rate to cover the expenses associated with the use of that horse. They have to make up the money somehow. It is a lot easier to tack on a higher fee to those who are trailering in. They are more likely to pay an extra $20-25 per lesson for the use of the ring as opposed to a beginner who is using a school horse.

While many facilities use the haul-in fee to justify “use of the facility” I doubt most people cause $20-25 worth of “wear and tear” on the facility". Perhaps if they left manure and garbage all over the facility so that someone had to clean up after them.

These facilities generally don’t make a lot of money on boarding (if they do at all), so they have to make it up somehow and haul in fees are an easy way to do it.

[atlatl]

I’ve seen haul-in clients, on Saturdays (the busiest day of the week),

• Park in the driveway in such a way to displace boarders and block others in
• Leave their horses sitting in the cross-ties or wash racks again displacing boarders while they visit
• Leave their horses in the turn outs while they leave the property for coffee/lunch
• Turn off sprinklers or adjust timers

Granted, the above are in the minority of haul-in clients, but I’ve experienced enough of the above that I’m a huge fan of haul-in fees.

[Pennywell_Bay]

We don’t pay to haul in for lessons but if I free ride, I pay. Kiddo does not because she’s in PC and it’s waived.

Turn it around- why don’t you pay the instructor to come to your house (you’d be charged mileage after a certain distance) and put in the facility to lesson at yourself? Because it’d cost too much money? Yes- that’s why there can be a haul in.

[amm2cd]

To the BO (not the trainer), a lesson horse is the same as a boarder, in that they already pay for their portion of wear and tear via board check.

Haul in fees cover not just the physical wear and tear bit also the headaches involved in sharing a facility with people who otherwise would have no skin in the game. There is no telling what kind of vet history this horse has; lesson horses and boarders are known quantities. The rider could be an awful driver who peels out in the driveway to get their trailer moving; boarders and lesson parents (to a lesser degree) are known quantities.

Personally, I love my hauling clients, but just because they they are paying for my time doesn’t mean that they get to use my place for free. Lots of time and money goes into nice footing, good driveways and nice trails.

[DrBeckett]

It’s funny how a haul-in fee is reasonable and you’re all willing to pay it because it all makes sense to you, but in other threads look for any way possible to not pay your vet because they’re just in it for the money.

Are you telling me that ONLY the haul-in clients are crappy parkers, drivers, don’t clean up after themselves. That, too, is ridiculous. Why call it a haul-in fee? Call it a nuisance fee.

[findeight]

I agree actual “wear and tear” by haul ins is an oversimplification, at best. Covering facility operating expenses, utilities, insurance and including maintenance is a better way to describe it.

You have to pay to play in a much nicer facility then you can afford to build and maintain yourself and, really, whining about $20 -$25 at a facility that costs boarders $30 a day PLUS the lesson? Yeah, some barns are dumps and not worth it but if you want to use a roof, lights and upgraded footing for the same priced lesson as a boarder pays?

And I don’t recall saying all haul ins are pigs since I have been a haul in or advocating stiffing the vet on other threads. I paid my vets and paid a haul in fee.

[mpsbarnmanager]

[QUOTE=sandsarita;8970752]
Everybody paid the same for lessons, but if the horse was in full training you got so many lessons per month free. [/QUOTE]

Did anyone else get a chuckle out of this?

[findeight]

Yeah guess I have a different definition of “free”.

[Horseperson112]

I baffled about how this confuses anyone… think of it as a gym membership. If you pay a monthly gym membership fee (i.e. you are a boarder), you can use the gym as much as you want. If you aren’t a member (i.e. a haul-in), you have to pay a day use fee. (And you don’t pay that day use fee because you are causing that much in damage - it’s a use fee for the right to use facilities someone else has invested a lot of money into.) If you engage a personal trainer, you still have to pay for your use of the gym facilities. You don’t just get for free what someone else is paying for.

You can assume that someone is paying for the school horse’s monthly membership either via paying a BO or via factoring in the monthly maintenance cost on the barn’s finances.

[Horseperson112]

I baffled about how this confuses anyone… think of it as a gym membership. If you pay a monthly gym membership fee (i.e. you are a boarder), you can use the gym as much as you want. If you aren’t a member (i.e. a haul-in), you have to pay a day use fee. (And you don’t pay that day use fee because you are causing that much in damage - it’s a use fee for the right to use facilities someone else has invested a lot of money into.) If you engage a personal trainer, you still have to pay for your use of the gym facilities. You don’t just get for free what someone else is paying for.

You can assume that someone is paying for the school horse’s monthly membership either via paying a BO or via factoring in the monthly maintenance cost on the barn’s finances.

[Pennywell_Bay]

Good analogy HP112. Well said.

And it isn’t a nuisance fee. I haul in when I want. I am not subject to # number of lessons a month. I am not a boarder. They can not/should not necessarily rely on my income. I am a free agent.

The $XX haul in fee is a small price for my freedom in keeping my horses at home.