I do this! And I paid the price last spring schooling a downhill combination – luckily I landed on my feet and the only thing I broke was my heel bone. I was out of the tack for 5 mos and when I was able to start moving again my trainer insisted I work out with her personal trainer for a few sessions so I could get stronger in my “core.” We had been discussing for a long time prior to the accident that this was a must and I had been doing core exercises, so thought I was pretty strong. Turns out, according to the pt, that my core is pretty strong but my upper body – shoulders, arms, upper back – were weak and that was a big problem with tipping forward. She has had me doing alot of push ups, free weights, etc to strengthen. AND lots of work of the wobble board for muscle memory. I was amazed to find out what it really felt like to be standing up straight!!
Actually I think that an instructor that puts you on a stopper to cure a leaning forward problem is probably the worst instructor in the world and only wants you to suffer in fear and pain because someone did the same thing to them.
It’s stupid, its dangerous, its mean, and it will do nothing but create more problems and send you to the hospital.
I don’t know why people want to teach by installing a sense of fear, pain, and anticipation in their students.
It’s a natural human response and it protects your body even if it’s the wrong thing to do on a horse. Somehow you need to find out how to break through that patter and override the part of your brain that thinks it’s a good idea. Lots and lots of confidence building lessons on a well behaved and steady horse are very helpful.
[QUOTE=wsmoak;4635232]
So, I don’t think I’m alone in the bad habit of tipping forward if things aren’t going perfectly (or just in general).
it’s called “going fetal” wrapping up and protecting the internal organs from a fall…one does it in just about anything…skiing,skating,breaking up with a boyfriend…anything that might “hurt”
you have to learn not to…it’s as simple as that
either thru practice or confidence (or bravado;)) one way of another you have to train your body to over ride the natural instinct to “ball up”
overcoming that is specific to each person
Tamara in TN
Well I had several opportunities to practice just walking around the neighborhood yesterday! Everything is under water here and the horses have been locked in for days. Walking out on the dirt roads, Patrick was spooking at stupid stuff and jigging, and he doesn’t DO that normally (takes too much energy. 
)
I’m pleased to say I sat up and put him to work on serpentines down the road if he wouldn’t walk quietly.
I second the advice to work with a personal trainer to identify areas that need improvement. I started with one back in May of 2008, and the strength and balance training have made a world of difference in my riding. (Losing 50+ pounds didn’t hurt either!)
Leading with your belly button and looking up at a fixed spot sound like great things to try.
A good visual is to think of your upper body as a tree and your seat/legs as the roots. The roots are holding you there, and the tree doesn’t lean - it stands tall.
This usually helps me with horses that root - I think, “You can’t pull me forward, I’m a tree.” :lol:
I also start singing slow calm tunes in my head when things go wrong - keeps the rhythm and makes me breathe normally.
Supposedly some saddles will balance you better, others tend to let you tip or sit in a chair position.
I couldn’t afford dressage lessons so I went to the saddleseat barn down the road. As a veteran tipper who was afraid of forward, spooky horses I thought it might give me some more tools for the box. My advice is always look up, always breathe, support your efforts with exercise that incorporates balance, such as Yoga, and just as the other poster said envision yourself right there. I fell off a couple of times because I just plain gave up instead of scrambling back upright.
And also I use a pain reliever so I can move the way I need to, I’m in my 50’s.
I have this problem too. The biggest thing that helped me on the flat was thinking about how I wanted to look on the horse. I actually almost ignore my horse and think ride like an Eq rider. This makes me sit up and lengthen my leg and basically just get my stuff together, and ironically the horse steps into line. While I stand by the fact that I have the coolest young horse EVER and he just responds ideally to everything, I do think that by redirecting your thoughts to something you can actively do calms you down and therefore your horse too. I also really like to get video of me riding so I can see how I look its really helpful because half the time I would swear to you I was sitting up straight when I was pitching forward. Also tell yourself to do things in the positive like say “Sit up” rather than “DONT lean forward”.
I agree with all about the fetal position, but my take on it is a bit different (because if anyone’s gotta be difficult or quirky, it’s gonna be me!).
My OMG-I’m-gonna-die go-to-position isn’t the true fetal but two point! I have short, short arms and if I get freaked and expect that I’m gonna lawndart, then I immediately hop into two-point. It’s better than fetal because I’ve got my heels down and weight in them (and MANE!!), but still not the best idea.
Since my gelding is an occasional bucker (sometimes mild, sometimes not-so-mild), I’ve learned that I can stay with him not by my standard two point, but by standing up! I can’t quite seem to get the sit back thing, but have modified my two point stance to one where my seat goes up, my shoulders go vertical or behind, and I let the reins slip enough that he doesn’t pull me down but I can get some leverage to stop him. Definitely not ideal and I wish I had video or pics to show you (heck, to show me as I can’t see myself), but so far it’s worked like a champ. Even if he throws in twisty bucks, I’ve been fine so far.
I’m holding out hope that I can continue to progress towards sitting down and back, but I’m definitely happy that at least I’m not longer two pointing it.
Great thread! Please keep the tips coming
Totally disagree. I didn’t say a DIRTY stopper. A horse who needs to be ridden 100% of the time is a GREAT teacher for someone who’s mind “checks out.” It trains you to keep your brain in the game. Of course, a horse who quits no matter what you do is not going to help. I’m talking about one who will quit if YOU quit.
all the visual thoughts suggested are good…but really, the only way to fix it is to ride more. Lots more. You have to learn to feel when things are going wrong, not be afraid…and keep riding. Most riders with this issue have stopped riding when they lean forward…
The more horses you ride (good and bad), the more time you spend riding…the more confident in your balance…the more likely you are to keep riding when things go south…and be able to ride through those naughty moments.
[QUOTE=Tiffani B;4640578]
Totally disagree. I didn’t say a DIRTY stopper. A horse who needs to be ridden 100% of the time is a GREAT teacher for someone who’s mind “checks out.” It trains you to keep your brain in the game. Of course, a horse who quits no matter what you do is not going to help. I’m talking about one who will quit if YOU quit.[/QUOTE]
I think that approach (putting a student of a horse that needs rider to be there 100%) depends a lot on personality, bravery and ability of the student. For some, that would help a lot. For others, it may scare the student even more, creating a visious cycle, which will either end up with student being hurt or giving up riding all together.
ETA: Bornfree, I think you hit the nail on the head. It is definitely about having enough confidence and experience to ride through whatever, and I feel like I still lack in both (which is probably the reason for fetal position to begin with).
Sames!
I really developed this when I was riding baby OTTBs who could be um explosive. It started off with hovering over the saddle and progressed to haunched shoulders over my hips, tipped forward, crunched at the stomach and legs forward.
I got a good friend to drill me senseless on her schoolmistress until my muscles remembered! Then it was just a case of mentally remembering every time I started to curl.
The trick there for me was two-fold: firstly realising that I am a small light rider and if I am not sitting down on my tush, there is absolutely no strength or stability in my body for me to use. When I sit properly in a solid position, I find it much easier to stop the antics.
Secondly was remembering to tilt my pelvis correctly. The bottom of your pelvis should point forward and the top of your pelvis should point backwards. If you can get this right, with a correct core strength holding it and not your bum and thighs holding it, the rest of your position falls more easily into place.
I picked it up badly from riding rearers. I’ve gotten better and riding jumps down hill has actually helped, doesn’t matter that I’m scared I must keep my shoulders back.
I ahve to say the visual of belly button forward rather than shoulders back is appealing, because shoulders back doesn’t seem to quite cut it for me!
A coach helped me overcome a lack of confidence at spooks or the beginning of trouble, he had me pick out a response that I would use at the first little wave of tension before anything escalated…so I’d turn in a ten meter circle and keep moving. Somehow over time this relieved my brain of the need to tip forward and curl up. It also got me over the lack of confidence issues. Anyway, it was a good tool for me and I knew I had some thing I could do that got me back to steady.
[QUOTE=bornfreenowexpensive;4640612]
the only way to fix it is to ride more. Lots more. You have to learn to feel when things are going wrong, not be afraid…and keep riding. Most riders with this issue have stopped riding when they lean forward…
The more horses you ride (good and bad), the more time you spend riding…the more confident in your balance…the more likely you are to keep riding when things go south…and be able to ride through those naughty moments.[/QUOTE]
Bingo to the point that riders have ‘stopped riding’ when they curl. And boy those naughty horses sure pick up on this! Visualize a confident balanced leg-on forward rider that rides with a plan. Watch good riding.
I have always used exercises to help teach leverage and practice them so that a rider’s instincts become a part of their tool box. At the risk of repeating myself :lol: here are the ideas I have shared before. Leverage: using those shoulders back to plant your butt in the saddle. I’ve taught a few beginner kids, the ones that are like empty pop cans in the saddle, the horses can root them out of their seats.
I self taught my girls when they began riding and I studied to keep up with them. They rode Western and English and every discipline has taught me something about correctness. My girls mostly rode working western, the reining in particular taught me and them a lot about how to sit up and use your seat. Now visualize a sliding stop leaning forward …
Try this just to get the feel of it and how it makes a connection to your seat. I always taught kids a one rein stop for safety, no one had fenced arenas to ride in. Relax the outside rein then shorten and open the inside rein and pull back and turn the horse into himself, just do this at a walk. Do not pull back behind your seat with your elbow! you lose the connection to your body. Pull back with your shoulder and feel your shoulder pull back and DOWN into your hip. Gently, no harshness about this, turn the horse into himself until his feet stop, then relax the rein and stand still. If the horse moves on repeat until they stand. Practice both sides and remember the feel. You can also hold the reins sitting straight at a halt and have a friend pull them, one at a time or both, to see how loose your seat is. If your shoulders are correctly back you will feel the strength of this leverage principle then. I often stand on the ground, you can do this unmounted, and show how the body turns and drops into the hip. You can see and feel the strength of the triangle connection, hand shoulder, hip - it even drops down your leg.
Downhill riding (and wow do we have steep hills and ravines here that taught my girls a real seat, and confidence) your job is to stay centered on the horse. Event XC drops the biggest tip here is to learn how to do the pelvic thrust. Go look at the BNT photos, esp Buck with his signature arm thrown back :D.
What BFNE said this is experience. You need to create the situations to practice the feels to have the automatic memory responses that you need. Big difference between passengering on top of a horse and riding connected. Maybe get the Centered Riding videos, they are full of exercises for practicing feel.
I just saw Magicboy’s post after I posted this. Same thing learn to feel and ride with a toolbox. And amazingly when you learn to ride with a confident plan your horse will be there with you.
[QUOTE=Tiffani B;4640578]
Totally disagree. I didn’t say a DIRTY stopper. A horse who needs to be ridden 100% of the time is a GREAT teacher for someone who’s mind “checks out.” It trains you to keep your brain in the game. Of course, a horse who quits no matter what you do is not going to help. I’m talking about one who will quit if YOU quit.[/QUOTE]
My horse is like this and it certainly helps me stay back and ride more aggressively. Like others have said, having my trainer there to remind me is also very helpful. I trust my horse more than she does!
And many a clinician has talked about kicking your feet forward when you begin to feel like your body is going to get pitched.
Skip916 had a good point about picking a spot and focusing on it. I was a “fetal postion” rider on my little mare. When I was jumping her she needed you to be totally committed to the jump and if you were not, she would stop. I would anticipate the stop, fold up and look down. Once I learned “eyes up” the rest of me “stayed up” and she was a happy mare.
I can still hear my instructor “eyes up, eyes up, leg, leg, leg, YAY you made it!!!”
I have struggled with this for years! I’m getting to the point now where most of the time I can stay with it and ride correctly. My trainer has me working on keeping my horse very forward so that when he does start to get concerned I don’t let him suck back and fall into the “fetal position” trap. I add more leg, don’t let the rest of my aids fall apart, and (most important) be very brave for a few seconds and before we know it, we’re past the scary (usually imaginary) object.
For me its just the experience of being in these situations, dealing with it correctly and then just building on those positive experiences. Eventually the “right” way to deal with it becomes your instinct instead of the knee-jerk, jesus-take-the-wheel reaction.
I had a very bad moment a few months ago where I forgot to be brave and went into the fetal position, that also causes me to lock up my elbows. My horse just wasn’t having any of it that day and flung his head up as I was leaning forward and my mouth connected with his poll. I was lucky I didn’t loose teeth or break anything but my lips were bleeding and I definitely saw some stars. Won’t be forgetting that one any time soon!!
