Why do people think pasture board should be less expensive than stall board?

[blairasb]

[QUOTE=sublimequine;7172006]
I’ve never seen a pasture board that offers any of these things, so I think there are a lot of assumptions being made. Just like stall board can vary greatly in what’s included, so can pasture board.[/QUOTE]

Exactly… Generally speaking, Pasture board is generally a very “hands off”, minimalistic sort of situation in my area- mostly horses are fed grain and hay as a group, water is checked at feed time, and the horses are kind of given a very quick once over to make sure they don’t have any obvious horrible gaping wounds and are on four legs. It’s pretty much zero personal attention. Just food and water.

[S1969]

[QUOTE=sublimequine;7172006]
I’ve never seen a pasture board that offers any of these things, so I think there are a lot of assumptions being made. Just like stall board can vary greatly in what’s included, so can pasture board.[/QUOTE]

Yes, I agree that many barns that offer “pasture board” are not providing the individual extras like blanket changing, grooming, and separating to feed horses. However, if the horses are actually eating grass, not hay, the land, fencing, and maintenance costs are still very large - much more than the cost of paying someone two hours worth of labor to do these individual things. They are nice, but they really don’t contribute to the overall costs as much as things like 1000 feet of good fencing does, for example.

[spotmenow]

[QUOTE=blairasb;7172135]
Exactly… Generally speaking, Pasture board is generally a very “hands off”, minimalistic sort of situation in my area- mostly horses are fed grain and hay as a group, water is checked at feed time, and the horses are kind of given a very quick once over to make sure they don’t have any obvious horrible gaping wounds and are on four legs. It’s pretty much zero personal attention. Just food and water.[/QUOTE]

Yup. And manure removal is usually not very consistent. We get inquiries all the time for pasture board. We don’t do it because we feed square bales up to five times a day depending on the season, separate horses at least twice a day for grain, clean ALL turnout areas and sheds daily, blanket, fly mask/spray, etc. And we have some horses who do live outside all the time, but that is the choice of the owner; each boarder has a stall. Actually, since we buy shavings in bulk, it is less labor-intensive for us (and therefore costs the same) to stall a horse because we remove manure from the turnouts daily. A lot easier to clean a 11x12 stall than drive the ATV around several acres. Not to mention the sand/fill in the turnouts and sheds.

The farm across the road does do what is traditionally thought of as pasture board and it is round bales and water. Period. Not even any sheds, just some trees. Horses aren’t even looked at on daily basis by the BO. No grain or stall available. Completely different level of care/amount of labor. Board is 1/2 what we charge. Works great for some people/horses. That is what most people think of as “pasture board”.

[katarine]

Pasture board around here means turned out on an overgrazed, unmanaged field, and fed twice a day, for about 150 or so.
No blanket management
No rotating fields
no liming
no fertilizer

just fed 2X a day by someone who may or may not look at your horse.

[S1969]

[QUOTE=katarine;7172436]
Pasture board around here means turned out on an overgrazed, unmanaged field, and fed twice a day, for about 150 or so.
No blanket management
No rotating fields
no liming
no fertilizer

just fed 2X a day by someone who may or may not look at your horse.[/QUOTE]

Same here. The key difference from the discussion is they are not really eating pasture. They are just outside, eating hay.

[fargonefarm]

So here’s my 2 cents, FWIW:

The acreage that my pasture boarded horses sit on is quite highly taxed. And the grass that they eat isn’t just magically provided every spring. It takes seed, which costs money. The machinery that seeds, mows, and cares for that pasture, costs money in diesel and maintenance. The run-ins that are provided for my pasture boarded horses cost quite a bit of money in construction and taxes (and for those of you who would dispute that - please call my tax assessor lady - I don’t like her very much.) My pasture boarders are granted the same access to multiple outdoor arenas, stadium jumps, cross-country jumps, heated observation room and restroom, and indoor arena. They get tack lockers like everyone else. They use the same amount of electricity when using my indoor facilities as stall boarders. They utilize my electricity via stock-tank heaters. In the fall/winter months, when that lovely green grass isn’t available, they are getting 24/7 access to the best roundbales I can provide - a roundbale costs me $70. And that’s a huge decrease from last year due to drought. I have to pay the same premiums on my umbrella insurance policy because I need to cover my lovely, well-rounded ass in case the owner of Poopsy breaks her nose-job on her way out to fetch him.
And to those who argue hay consumption? What happened to that well-loved COTH mantra of “more hay less grain.”?
Add that to the fact that I happen to house a bunch of skinny, rescue TB’s, high-maintenance warmbloods, and boarders who don’t quite get that the hay that gets baled on the sides of the roads that they drive-by on the way here, actually costs me money to buy.
Look - I’m not looking for an argument (at least until I’ve had a glass of wine!) But not everyone here lives in a) the same part of the country b) runs the same type of operation, and c) provides the same kind of services. So take that into consideration before you condemn.

[Beentheredonethat]

[QUOTE=katarine;7172436]
Pasture board around here means turned out on an overgrazed, unmanaged field, and fed twice a day, for about 150 or so.
No blanket management
No rotating fields
no liming
no fertilizer

just fed 2X a day by someone who may or may not look at your horse.[/QUOTE]

Same here, and no useable grass pretty much ever. The land around here is very, very expensive, so I don’t think that’s the issue.

I think when people are thinking pasture board should cost the same, it’s not even close to the situations we know.

[S1969]

[QUOTE=fargonefarm;7173514]
So here’s my 2 cents, FWIW:

The acreage that my pasture boarded horses sit on is quite highly taxed. And the grass that they eat isn’t just magically provided every spring. It takes seed, which costs money. The machinery that seeds, mows, and cares for that pasture, costs money in diesel and maintenance. The run-ins that are provided for my pasture boarded horses cost quite a bit of money in construction and taxes (and for those of you who would dispute that - please call my tax assessor lady - I don’t like her very much.) My pasture boarders are granted the same access to multiple outdoor arenas, stadium jumps, cross-country jumps, heated observation room and restroom, and indoor arena. They get tack lockers like everyone else. They use the same amount of electricity when using my indoor facilities as stall boarders. They utilize my electricity via stock-tank heaters. In the fall/winter months, when that lovely green grass isn’t available, they are getting 24/7 access to the best roundbales I can provide - a roundbale costs me $70. And that’s a huge decrease from last year due to drought. I have to pay the same premiums on my umbrella insurance policy because I need to cover my lovely, well-rounded ass in case the owner of Poopsy breaks her nose-job on her way out to fetch him.
And to those who argue hay consumption? What happened to that well-loved COTH mantra of “more hay less grain.”?
Add that to the fact that I happen to house a bunch of skinny, rescue TB’s, high-maintenance warmbloods, and boarders who don’t quite get that the hay that gets baled on the sides of the roads that they drive-by on the way here, actually costs me money to buy.
Look - I’m not looking for an argument (at least until I’ve had a glass of wine!) But not everyone here lives in a) the same part of the country b) runs the same type of operation, and c) provides the same kind of services. So take that into consideration before you condemn.[/QUOTE]

I would pay full price for that. The one time I boarded (for 2 months, because I bought a new horse in winter and wanted to keep her in work) I was miserable. My horse never went outside. She lived in her stall about 23 hours a day and hated it, and I was not happy. Many of the boarding barns around here keep nearly that schedule all year round. Horses may be turned out for a few hours (or not), but they certainly don’t have pasture and turnout buddies and sheds to loaf in. (ETA: sure, some do. But the bigger ones don’t).

To be honest, I’d actually consider paying more for this type of “pasture board” than “stall board” - because that is what most horses (and definitely my horses) prefer. (And what they get on my farm).

[wendy]

pasture board: don’t have to bring the horses in and out. don’t have to muck out stalls. don’t have to feed (if you have no pasture, why are you offering pasture board?). Obviously it’s less expensive than stalls.

[Simbalism]

My mare has been on pasture board for years. She is only fed hay in the winter when the grass has gone dormant. Just much less maintence in the basic care of the horse: large water tub which is scrubbed and filled about once per week, grain 2x per day( we provide the type of grain we want horse to eat). The pastures at current farm are very good, and there is a 2nd pasture not being used that my mare and her pasture buddy can be rotated to. I don’t forsee them needing hay until maybe December.

[StarPattern]

My horses live primarily on pasture, unless it’s winter and they are in a private run with a buddy. This costs me $150 per month, per horse, with as much hay as they can possibly eat. It also includes an entire shed for all my stuff, plus no-charge blanketing, hold fees and feeding of whatever extra feed I provide. That said, this facility is geared toward the recreational rider - they do not have an enclosed arena or a barn, and the majority of the boarders are weekend warriors. Eventually, the plan is to build a basic outdoor arena and a 12-stall barn, but that’s not in the works yet.

I love my barn and I’m in the camp that believes pasture board should be less. If I’m not using a stall, I shouldn’t be charged as if I am. But that’s my own personal feelings on the matter. I have no issues cleaning my horses’ private runs out, emptying and scrubbing their water buckets and making sure they are blanketed or fed properly. It is a big weight off my shoulders to know that I won’t be charged an arm and a leg if the farrier comes out during the day and I’m not there to hold my own horses, even though I really try to get the schedule ahead of time and catch/hold my own horses.

[hey101]

I just brought my 2 horses home 2 weeks ago (from boarding in Orange County,CA to my own place in North County, San Diego). In OC I was paying ~$575 base board per horse per month (hay, bedding, and 1x/day stall-cleaning)- $1150/month for both horses. They now live out in a big field, and by calculating the rate that they have eaten hay over the past two weeks, with hay at $25/bale (~105lbs per bale), and that they are not using any bedding at all (I muck their field 2x/day), I will spend ~$350/month for both horses. $800/month difference in cost! I can easily think of some other, and much more fun, ways to spend that $800. In fact, I already thought of 5 or 10… new jumps, my hunt subscription for the year, a new brick aisle way in my barn, wooden saddle racks and brass bridle hooks for my tack room…

[halo]

I would never consider the cost of the land and taxes into this conversation. If you dont have a single horse on your property, the cost of the land and the taxes will still be the same, so I wouldnt consider that a cost. Once you add horses, you add feed, hay, fencing, labor, so those are the costs, in my feeble mind anyway.

[S1969]

[QUOTE=halo;7174694]
I would never consider the cost of the land and taxes into this conversation. If you dont have a single horse on your property, the cost of the land and the taxes will still be the same, so I wouldnt consider that a cost. Once you add horses, you add feed, hay, fencing, labor, so those are the costs, in my feeble mind anyway.[/QUOTE]

Not if they are EATING pasture as their main source of forage, versus keeping horses and feeding them hay. If you are feeding pasture - you need about an acre per horse. If you are just turning horses out, you could put two in a 60x60 foot pen and call it turnout. That is a very big difference in terms of land cost, taxes, fencing, and maintenance (seeding, dragging, mowing).

However, I think many places that offer “pasture board” are offering larger turnout areas with hay available, and some grass to eat. In that case, then I would not expect to pay as much as full board.

[Lady_Eboshi]

Around here, most places doing “pasture board” are charging 1/2 to 1/3 of the price of being in a full-service stable with an indoor arena. Some of these are the relatively “hands-off” management style some of you have described above, but all of them include full summer pasture, replaced by hay all winter, grain as necessary to keep condition, and limited blanketing services.

For perspective: “Full Board” locally with an indoor costs anywhere from $800 to $1,500 per month, depending on the trainer and the program. I charge $500 for pasture board, which includes grazing on GREEN, not overgrazed, land with run-in shed and fly management, manure management, graining as needed, constant supervision and winter blanketing to suit. Granted, I don’t do “blanket changing” multiple times a day, but few horses need that anyway. I’ll do most things within reason that owners want–supplements, meds, separated feeding for harder keepers or low guys on the totem pole. Almost everyone does fine barefoot.

The Pros: Constant movement and all-forage feeding eliminates most COPD, colic, boredom vices and helps very measurably with fitness and minimizing the effects of arthritis, navicular, nervousness, ulcers, metabolic disorders, etc. at far lower cost to the owner. Frequently, we eliminate nearly all vet and shoeing bills as well.

The Cons: Horses may put “dings” on each other, though serious injuries are rare; minor ills like tick bites, rain-rot and hoof abscesses are more common in this setting; you won’t be clipping, and winter footing will be ice and snow so expect to give him pretty much the winter off; you are not paying for and will not have amenities like heated wash stall, bathroom, stall, aisle and arena.

As with so many things, it all depends on the area, the landscape and the people doing the managing. Expect to go and see the place, talk to other clients, get references from vets, farriers, feed dealers, etc. to gauge the place’s reputation.
But for many people in “life transitions”–college, divorce, pregnancy, job change; pasture board’s affordability can make the difference between keeping and selling your horse; and most of the horses themselves consider it an upgrade from 20 hours a day bored senseless and stiffening up in a stall!

[RedmondDressage]

I’m confused as to why some people think that facilities with stall board somehow don’t have pasture maintenance costs. Several people are citing the cost of maintaining fencing and fields as though that maintenance is unique to those who offer pasture board only. All facilities have those expenses ON TOP of food, shavings, labor, etc for stall board. Often farms with stall board have a higher concentration of horses per acre as well sp their maintenance coats may in fact exceed most pasture board situations. Add to that the cost of building the barn and often arena(s) and I think it ought to be obvious as to why stall board is and should and be more expensive. My little 5 stall barn cost around $40k to build… One like the place I board my show horse was at least $200 - 300k. And you’re not factoring in the perks of being able to work and often ride under shelter and get your horse out of the weather. No way in hell would a client in their right mind pay the same for field board as stall board just on the perks alone.

Bottom line - if your expenses equal a full care stall board facility you’re probably doing something wrong. And regardless of what you’re paying for expenses, the market is the market. You can’t expect clients to pay the same amount as they would for far more amenities. I suppose you can try to sell that but good luck to you on that effort.

[Ghazzu]

[QUOTE=halo;7174694]
I would never consider the cost of the land and taxes into this conversation. If you dont have a single horse on your property, the cost of the land and the taxes will still be the same, so I wouldnt consider that a cost. Once you add horses, you add feed, hay, fencing, labor, so those are the costs, in my feeble mind anyway.[/QUOTE]

You might not consider it, but anyone running a business certainly should.

[S1969]

[QUOTE=RedmondDressage;7175394]
Bottom line - if your expenses equal a full care stall board facility you’re probably doing something wrong. And regardless of what you’re paying for expenses, the market is the market. You can’t expect clients to pay the same amount as they would for far more amenities. I suppose you can try to sell that but good luck to you on that effort.[/QUOTE]

Well, the market is the market - that’s true. There are people who would pay a fair amount for actual pasture boarding with decent pasture, sheds, clean water troughs and access to all the same riding facilities as the stall boarders.

I agree that barns cost $$ - and that their costs should be spread across all the boarders that have access to them. The stalls are only one part of the barn, though - if pasture boarders can use grooming areas, wash racks, indoor and outdoor rings…part of their board should also reflect these facilities. And then if you have to add on significant extra acreage - it’s not necessarily going to be a huge difference in cost between stall boarders and “pasture” boarders, depending on where you live.

If by “pasture boarding” a barn means “horses that don’t get any attention and stand in drylots in the sun and get eaten by flies”…well, sure who would pay full price for that?

[lolalola]

I’m in a pasture board situation in a very expensive part of the country. I’m impressed by the way the farm owners set up the situation. My horses are turned out together in a large field-- other boarders are in their own fields, not more than 3 horses in a roughly 2 acre paddock so it isn’t overgrazed. This season, the barn owner hasn’t had to feed hay since the spring, but that isn’t true if there isn’t much rainfall. Automatic waterers make life easier all around. The horse have a run-in shed and are fed grain twice a day – supplements are given if the boarder sets them out ahead of time. Using a Kubota, it takes the barn worker about 20 minutes in good weather to feed about 12 horses AM and PM. It’s very basic, but there’s a barn to groom and tack up in and use a stall if you must – but there’s a per diem cost and you have to clean it yourself. We’ve got trails and a good ring. Wash stall? What is that – we’ve got a hose. It’s not a place for people who need a lot of hand holding, or who need horses held for the blacksmith, etc. Boarding horses, as well as some other ag activities, helps the landowner get a farmland assessment, so the taxes on the land itself are very low. They pay full, very expensive freight on their house.

[clanter]

[QUOTE=halo;7174694]
I would never consider the cost of the land and taxes into this conversation. If you dont have a single horse on your property, the cost of the land and the taxes will still be the same, so I wouldnt consider that a cost. Once you add horses, you add feed, hay, fencing, labor, so those are the costs, in my feeble mind anyway.[/QUOTE]

Without having the horses we would not have had land for them, since the lands use is considered farm use for us the land is taxed a bare bones rates… but the whole thing got turned upside down when it was discovered there is three pockets of natural gas and one known pool of oil under our pastures… just the right to extract the gas and oil paid for the land five times over the cost.