Why do people think pasture board should be less expensive than stall board?

[QUOTE=halo;7174694]
I would never consider the cost of the land and taxes into this conversation. If you dont have a single horse on your property, the cost of the land and the taxes will still be the same, so I wouldnt consider that a cost. Once you add horses, you add feed, hay, fencing, labor, so those are the costs, in my feeble mind anyway.[/QUOTE]

I basically agree with you but there are several circumstances which can be affected by the cost of land.

It can depend on the business, and mostly the location. If you are a horse owner who bought property and decided to board a few horses, then yes, the cost of the land is a fixed pre-existing cost. On the other hand, if you are a business owner and specifically chose a property based on the number of horses you could board it might make a difference: you could put x number of horses on five acres if they were stalled, but you choose to purchase an extra 20-acre lot next door to provide pasture board and turnout. If you are in an expensive area, the land cost and property taxes would be a factor.

In the extreme example of how location affects this equation, think of the areas like Manhattan where carriage horses are kept in straight stalls or small box stalls. The cost of pasture for those horses would be in the many millions of dollars in that high-dollar rent district. You’d have to tear down a few buildings or create some kind of arena/pasture inside a building. Similarly, many who board in Los Angeles content themselves with a stall and a 12’x24’ yard with no hope of pasture. The cost of the land and the taxes to add pasture would be prohibitive for a business owner/barn owner. Even if you owned land for decades as the city built up around you, there is the opportunity cost (loss?) of underusing that land, that is, in grazing horses on your five acres which are now worth millions of dollars. If you are in it for a business, those figures matter.

If you are paying taxes on a large acreage and have a viable horse business, I would strongly urge you to look into Conservation Easements or agricultural taxes which can very considerably ease the burden on the landowner. There is no need to pay building-lot based taxes if that’s not what you’ll be doing. And many places, land “in easement” may still be handed down within the family, just not developed to greater density than specified in the Easement. The Piedmont and Millbrook Hunts have done fabulous work in this area.

Think outside the box, research well and utilize ALL the tools that exist to help keep land open and productive for agriculture!

My barn does charge the same for pasture vs. stall board. But the outside horses
get the same hay, grain and everything. Their shed gets cleaned and bedded
daily as well, they get the same blanket changes/fly spray/etc that the inside horses
get.

BO doesn’t really want pasture boarders, but there is a old OTTB that was in a trailer
accident and he won’t tolerate being in the barn. So, he is out all the time with his
owner’s other horse for company.

All of our pastures are very lush, and the horses don’t eat as much hay in the summer as winter. But hay is unlimited (seriously!) at this farm, as long as your horse cleans all of it up. So no reduction in the summer, rather the savings there go towards the additional expenses in the winter.

If you can’t beat em, join em. Raise your stall board and meet everybody’s expectations. In theory stall board should be everything pasture board is AND stalling the horse at owners request when requested and all the labor that goes into that. I guess I don’t get it. And admittedly I didn’t read all of this but are the stabled horses not given turnout on grass/hay as well? Weird to me but what do I know?

I think the bottom line here is interesting, given that everyone’s costs are different, definition of “pasture board” and “stalled board” vary, etc.

If you’re running a business, it would be wise to know all of your costs and services so that you can explain to current and potential boarders where the boarding prices come from.

I can say this: with my understanding of pasture board and full board and given no other information, if I saw pasture and full board offered at the same price I would assume that pasture board is being discouraged and they would prefer to fill the barn. Just because my experience is with a pasture board that is less intensive/less expensive than full board. Those are my expectations, and even if I’m not in the majority it seems there are enough folks who would benefit from a rationale of the cost structure.

PeteyPie raises some valid points. The base cost in some areas is really going to be affected by the value of the property. It’s also going to be affected by whether you bought for the purposes of running a business or as a secondary to owning a country home.

I was always taught that round bales are for cows, not horses. It’s kinda shocking to me that so many people see no problem with their horses eating something that is most likely going to get wet and moldy. No one has had colic issues from these or had horses get possum fever? Even our cheap-scape local horse dealer had his under a roof and raised off the ground because he lost too many horses from using round bales just tossed out in the pasture. Even the crappy cheap summer camp I worked at refused to use them… for similar reasons, and they pinched every penny that they possibly could. Is throwing hay from the loft or shed really that much harder? That way you can control the amount that they eat and are able to take a good look at it to make sure its safe. I was also taught that free choice was not the best idea for most horses as your want to be able to control their intake, also how would you tell if they are off their feed? You cant just look in and see poky hasn’t eaten his hay for that feeding… I don’t know I guess its just different manners of horse keeping.

[QUOTE=englishcowgirl;7183663]
I was always taught that round bales are for cows, not horses. It’s kinda shocking to me that so many people see no problem with their horses eating something that is most likely going to get wet and moldy. No one has had colic issues from these or had horses get possum fever? Even our cheap-scape local horse dealer had his under a roof and raised off the ground because he lost too many horses from using round bales just tossed out in the pasture. Even the crappy cheap summer camp I worked at refused to use them… for similar reasons, and they pinched every penny that they possibly could. Is throwing hay from the loft or shed really that much harder? That way you can control the amount that they eat and are able to take a good look at it to make sure its safe. I was also taught that free choice was not the best idea for most horses as your want to be able to control their intake, also how would you tell if they are off their feed? You cant just look in and see poky hasn’t eaten his hay for that feeding… I don’t know I guess its just different manners of horse keeping.[/QUOTE]

In 10 years of feeding round bales, no one has colicked.
In 10 years of feeding round bales, no one has contracted EPM.

Don’t not to “Assume” horse keeping practices you know not of:

Ours are fed Horse Quality Rounds only. If the farm itself doesn’t put up the hay (organic, btw), then my off-farm supplier is called because: I KNOW HIS HAY.

Rounds are placed within a Cinch Chix Hay Net to control the speed with which they consume it…from gobbling down to grazing speed. It also takes 35-40% waste down to maybe 2%.

Said netted round bale is placed securely within a Red River Hay Cradle to get it up off the ground/mud.

Rounds are only fed during the winter and with 2 drafts, 2 lights and 2 goats munching on it, a 350-425 lb round is consumed in 7 - 9 days. Since it’s cold and consumption is pretty fast, even if it gets rained on, the hay doesn’t have time to get nasty & moldy.

During the summer, when it’s only my Percheron who’s dry-lotted and needs hay, said netted/cradled round bale is in her run in.

[QUOTE=englishcowgirl;7183663]
I was always taught that round bales are for cows, not horses. It’s kinda shocking to me that so many people see no problem with their horses eating something that is most likely going to get wet and moldy. No one has had colic issues from these or had horses get possum fever? Even our cheap-scape local horse dealer had his under a roof and raised off the ground because he lost too many horses from using round bales just tossed out in the pasture. Even the crappy cheap summer camp I worked at refused to use them… for similar reasons, and they pinched every penny that they possibly could. Is throwing hay from the loft or shed really that much harder? That way you can control the amount that they eat and are able to take a good look at it to make sure its safe. I was also taught that free choice was not the best idea for most horses as your want to be able to control their intake, also how would you tell if they are off their feed? You cant just look in and see poky hasn’t eaten his hay for that feeding… I don’t know I guess its just different manners of horse keeping.[/QUOTE]

Everything Choco said +: We grow our own hay and only have round bale equipment. There’s nothing inherently bad about round bales when it’s baled for horses. It’s baled under the exact same conditions, with the same handling and care as if it were square. Now COW HAY is cow hay, and shouldn’t be fed to horses and should not be confused with horse hay, no matter what shape it comes in.

My horses are out my window and steps from my back door - I see them many, many times a day and I make mental notes if someone isn’t eating when it seems like they should be. I’m hyper-vigilant with my horses, and feeding rounds in a slow feeder gives me a few more minutes a day to spend doing other things with them. Winters are cold and boring, so having access to hay 24/7 isn’t a bad thing at all.

Why would a horse in a stall get less hay than a horse in a pasture?

Shouldn’t a stall boarded horse get free choice hay to mimic natural grazing as much as possible?

Are the stall boarded horses standing around with nothing to nibble on while the pasture boarded horses get a roundbale? That is the only way I can see a pasture boarded horse eating more hay than a stalled one.

[QUOTE=englishcowgirl;7183663]
I was also taught that free choice was not the best idea for most horses as your want to be able to control their intake, also how would you tell if they are off their feed? You cant just look in and see poky hasn’t eaten his hay for that feeding… I don’t know I guess its just different manners of horse keeping.[/QUOTE]

What is wrong with free choice hay?
You get to know the horse and how much he is likely to eat without wasting it.
You put a commensurate number of flakes of hay in his stall.

If he has no hay left the next feeding, you know to add a flake next feedingso that he can eat as much as he wants without running out.
If he has just a little hay left at the next feeding, you know it was just right.
If he has a lot of hay left at the next feeding, he’s off his feed.

At my place the only thing stall boarders get that pasture boarders dont is the stall. They get blanketed, fly sprayed etc.

I charge less for pasture because I dont have the expense of bedding, or the work of cleaning the stall and bringing the horse in and out.
Where i am square bales are $6.25 each. Rolls are $65.
I have 5 horses on a roll and it lasts about a week or so.
I feed free choice hay so square bales would cost me a lot more, yes i have done the math. I would have to throw out 4-5 bales a day at $30 or so a day, times 7 which is $210 versus one roll for a week at $65.
I have grass but my place is not huge so I also feed hay to keep the place from turning into a mud pit.
Sometimes there are some expenses for broken boards etc but that is just the cost of doing business. If I get one that is really destructive I ask them to leave.

[QUOTE=fargonefarm;7173514]
So here’s my 2 cents, FWIW:

The acreage that my pasture boarded horses sit on is quite highly taxed. And the grass that they eat isn’t just magically provided every spring. It takes seed, which costs money. The machinery that seeds, mows, and cares for that pasture, costs money in diesel and maintenance. The run-ins that are provided for my pasture boarded horses cost quite a bit of money in construction and taxes (and for those of you who would dispute that - please call my tax assessor lady - I don’t like her very much.) My pasture boarders are granted the same access to multiple outdoor arenas, stadium jumps, cross-country jumps, heated observation room and restroom, and indoor arena. They get tack lockers like everyone else. They use the same amount of electricity when using my indoor facilities as stall boarders. They utilize my electricity via stock-tank heaters. In the fall/winter months, when that lovely green grass isn’t available, they are getting 24/7 access to the best roundbales I can provide - a roundbale costs me $70. And that’s a huge decrease from last year due to drought. I have to pay the same premiums on my umbrella insurance policy because I need to cover my lovely, well-rounded ass in case the owner of Poopsy breaks her nose-job on her way out to fetch him.
And to those who argue hay consumption? What happened to that well-loved COTH mantra of “more hay less grain.”?
Add that to the fact that I happen to house a bunch of skinny, rescue TB’s, high-maintenance warmbloods, and boarders who don’t quite get that the hay that gets baled on the sides of the roads that they drive-by on the way here, actually costs me money to buy.
Look - I’m not looking for an argument (at least until I’ve had a glass of wine!) But not everyone here lives in a) the same part of the country b) runs the same type of operation, and c) provides the same kind of services. So take that into consideration before you condemn.[/QUOTE]

God love you!!!

[QUOTE=sublimequine;7172006]
I’ve never seen a pasture board that offers any of these things, so I think there are a lot of assumptions being made. Just like stall board can vary greatly in what’s included, so can pasture board.[/QUOTE]

So true. I’m reading along thinking my boarder, a retiree, pays a little less for pasture board here than he would local stall board. BUT he gets his feet picked daily, groomed a couple of times a week, fly sprayed, sheeted, hosed off, grained twice daily, checked, nicks and bumps treated daily etc. in short he gets treated like he was mine. I’m underpaid when I think about in those terms.

Pasture top end is picked daily and twice a week I go a route through field and fill fel. If I factored in land cost I’d be seriously underpaid. That said his little pony buddy is retiring here October 1 st. Which is lovely for him.

[QUOTE=fargonefarm;7173514]
So here’s my 2 cents, FWIW:

The acreage that my pasture boarded horses sit on is quite highly taxed…[/QUOTE]

This does have variations from place-to-place. We are in the middle of the city, several million people around me. High destiny development/re-development all around me yet our acreage is taxed as a single dwelling lot… the same tax value as a 8,000 sq/ft lot .

I questioned the appraisal district regarding the land value and their response was it was plotted as a single lot and it is a single lot. As raw land for building lots if it were to be developed the land would be worth thirty times what the taxing district has apprised its value as.

As for us using the land as pasture, in our case it makes no difference to the taxing district

Interesting discussion. I think it is easy to see that there are A LOT of variables in how much it costs to keep a horse…stalled or not. I might not agree with the OP on keeping round bales in front of the horses year round to preserve the grass (umm…the grass should be there to be eaten and management should be done to keep it from being eaten away to oblivion), but I do still think what it costs and what you get will vary WILDLY. I also think that what you expect out of your pasture board can vary wildly. I have two horses. If they were both to be pasture boarded, what one needs/wants would be a big difference to the other, and, likely, cost substantially more.

My retired guy is pasture “boarded” (he actually lives in my backyard, but in the most technical sense, I board him there, and it is kinda sorta self care, I don’t also rent the pasture). His needs are simple- a well maintained pasture (which isn’t free to maintain!), a roomy shelter, and fresh clean water. His hands on needs are very, very simple (for the most part, he prefers his human interactions to belly scratches and cookies). Make sure he has all his limbs, there are no serious injuries, and, this time of year, fly spray him and take his mask on and off. I do provide a small amount of grain so he can have something to wash down his meds with, but, otherwise, he is DEAD easy. He may require 15 minutes of work a day. He and his companion together might equal a whopping 30-45 minutes (not counting the doting his companion’s owner does on the companion. Actual needs being is a lot less than what she spends). And the 45 minutes are the days their trough needs a scrub and refill. Even with the high cost of property around here, his board should be no where near as expensive as my other horse’s stall board (which is on the high side for the area), and for the average stall board rate in the area, in general. Even when you factor in taxes, etc, it just doesn’t come out near the same.

My other horse, where he to be pasture boarded, would need a lot more for he and I both to be happy. He would need to be grained at least twice a day, blankets changed accordingly in the winter, and a more careful going over each day. I would need amenities like a tack room, a wash rack with hot water, a ring with lights (if not an indoor). Basically, I would want EXACTLY what I get for stall board, just minus the stall. If you did the math, I am sure the figures would come out not that much less than what I pay for his stall board (really, the only thing that wouldn’t happen would be the stall mucking, but that time would probably go right back into pasture maintenance, to compensate for the wear and tear on the pasture). There would still be the daily hands on going over. There might not be the turning in/out portion, but there would still be the time consuming task of taking the feed out twice a day (and having had pasture board horses in the past, sometimes that task in more time consuming than turning in/out!). The amenities that I would want would still need to be maintained. And you’d still have the high price of land to deal with. The only thing that might be SLIGHTLY less would be the cost of hay, only because there wouldn’t be a need for it as much in the growing season (and, for my horse, that would be a marginal savings, as he just doesn’t eat that much hay in his stall since he stuffs himself silly all night on grass!).

Soooo, my point is…it depends. On a lot of things. I, personally, wouldn’t pay for pasture board if my horse wasn’t actually getting the majority of his feed through the actual pasture during the growing months. Neither of my horses are fatties that need dry lots and I think that if they can consume fresh grass, it is far better for them, so I wouldn’t keep either anywhere there wasn’t decent to good pasture. That can come at a price. I’d be ok with that.

Around here, full board with a stall and turnout costs more because there are more “services” involved…it’s not just about feed and hay. Full board with a stall is $695. Full board outside (no appreciable grass because properties tends to be small and expensive) is $495. But honestly, how things are priced is at the option of the facility owner. If they want to charge the same for outside board as they do for stall board and the market supports it, they can do it!

Last winter I would go to the barn in the evenings, muck, feed, change blankets for 4 horses. At the same time my husband would take hay out to 4 cows, in the wind, rain and mud. He dealt with the elements and did a much more physical job in the same time it took me to do the barn for 4 horses. So this attitude that you’re JUST throwing some hay? Come throw hay with me one winter and you’ll either build upper body strength or end up in traction. Give me stalls to clean any day!

I have a horse with mild COPD, checked into outside board at the GREAT barn where she is currently on stall board. Outside board is $450, stall board is $600. Outside board is a small paddock, 2-3 horses, no grazing. Picked out maybe once a month. Run-in OK for 2 horses but full of manure and not bedded. Outside boarders grained once daily as a group, no blanket checks, no heated water (Ontario here! water freezes in the winter!). Hay is fed from round bales in a net under a roof, but the quality is AWFUL! I wouldn’t compliment it by calling it Cow Hay! The care doesn’t even begin to compare with the excellent management of the stalled horses. Guess where my horse is staying. I don’t know how the BO justifies the small price difference when I see the minimal care put into managing the outside horses.

[QUOTE=demidq;7745573]
I don’t know how the BO justifies the small price difference when I see the minimal care put into managing the outside horses.[/QUOTE]

The pasture board situation at your farm sounds not great, I agree. Just want to point out, though, that your BO’s costs are mostly tied up in the cost of land (mortgage? taxes), maintenance, labor, insurance etc. The $150 discount sounds about right to me in what she’s saving in shavings, a second feeding and better quality hay.

Are there no better pasture board options for your COPD horse in the area?