Why does a nose net require a vet letter?

[endlessclimb]

Do you agree with the rule that says that any drug used with the intention of artificially altering/calming the horse’s behavior is not legal for showing?

… what’s the difference between a drug to muffle a reaction, and a piece of equipment to muffle a reaction?

I take my horse places other than shows, so that when we get to a show it’s not a total bombshell getting dropped on her. I set up situations at home to practice reactions to noises - popping balloons, snapping whips, blasting the radio, walking her around when the tractor is putting up hay instead of avoiding the situation, hammering in a board with her on a leadrope right there to watch, setting up and putting away poles with a clatter… That’s what training is - doing the work beforehand so that when it’s time to get in front of a “judge”, she has the tools to cope with whatever should come up (judge being “go time” be that a hack out where deer come blasting out of the woods, or an actual show). And if she reacts to something, my reaction isn’t to muffle whatever it is that scared her, it’s to recreate it again and again until the correct response is conditioned in.

If you would rather just muffle the sounds and avoid the training portion, that’s your prerogative.

[lenapesadie]

Wasn’t that part of Black Beauty’s raising?

My horse was boarded at a farm with an active train track not 30 feet from the three front pastures. There was a bridle path between the pastures and the track. God help you if you were riding on that path when the train rolled through. Not a single horse was ok with that. If they were in the pasture, they were fine though they would get away from that edge. But evidently that didn’t translate to being on the bridle path. Horses!

[Squirt]

That was Black Beauty

[evntr95]

Have any of you who are extolling the sins of sound muffling bonnets actually seen/held one in the flesh? Because I paid a lot of money for a neoprene one and a bit less for a quilted one and both of them muffle sound about as well as my winter hat, as in, they really don’t. I imagine the show organizations have allowed them because it’s really pretty harmless and if enough people asked for the rule change and it makes competitors happy or feel better, why not. If you’ll notice, ear plugs, which I do think actually work, are still not legal.

Also, if the horse really hates it or finds it uncomfortable, he’ll tell you. My horse wasn’t much of a bonnet fan in the first place, but he somehow shook off the entire bridle and ear net the one time he wore it because he hated the neoprene one so much. I had frankly bought it as one of many last ditch attempts to get this horse to not be such a jerk in the dressage. I did ALL the “right” things for that horse- vet, bodywork, trainers, all the special equipment. I finally accepted reality, listened to the advice from the long line of well-respected trainers who hated him, and got rid of the horse.

[endlessclimb]

Yes, I have held one. More than one, in fact, as there’s a whole section of them at the tack store.

Did you wear it, with ears that actually fit in it? Because otherwise, I’m not sure how you can accurately say how much sound they muffle.

But, if you did try and put it on… we need photos.

[soloudinhere]

So are you agreeing that they don’t muffle anything? or admitting that you don’t know, either, whether they actually do anything?

I’m so glad that all of you expert trainers somehow were able to avoid an entire 2-year pandemic where many barns and “places to go” were not open to outsiders.

[Jealoushe]

@Rackonteur

How does a net over the nose help with a problem of a nerve just below the eye?
Nowhere have I been able to find anything that says how the net works. So I’m curious as to how it was discovered.
I’m also curious as to how its use might affect the rule about horses’ whiskers. Will their presence interfere with the effect of the net?
Is the net some sort of reaction to rules forbidding the clipping of nose whiskers?
Could someone say, “My horse has to have his whiskers trimmed because they get in the way of his nose net?”

I like to know how things work, and so far no one seems to know how this nose net does.

Today is the day you are going to learn all about it, have a listen;

https://declue-equine.com/episode-25-headshaking-syndrome/

[Jealoushe]

@Rackonteur

Could someone say, “My horse has to have his whiskers trimmed because they get in the way of his nose net?”

Yes, you can get a vet exemption for this among other things.

[rennyben]

As I type this I can already imagine the “but… but….” Soapboxers.
First, I don’t know how, but the neoprene bonnets work. We might not understand it bc we are using our human brains and human ears, but they can work like magic. 3 stories of personal anecdotal proof:

• one Sunday I was schooling in the indoor when suddenly horse went panicky. The kind where I could actually feel his heart pounding in my calves, his muscles were rock hard, head in the air and spinning — absolutely out of his gourd. The local foxhunt had just galloped into the corn outside the indoor. I got off (bc I like staying alive and ambulatory) but was sad to have driven up and wasted my day. On goes the bonnet and 5 min. Later we’re doing stretchy circles.
• take same sensitive chestnut tb to school a large show facility. He’s in crossties when a truck slowly pulls a noisy machine down the aisle in front of us. He gets very upset, is staying still but on on hyper alert and kicking repeatedly. I pop on his bonnet, he immediately relaxes and lowers his head and stops kicking.
• go on trail ride on super windy October day. Leaves are blowing up all around us, horse next to me is bouncing off mine. Mine has bonnet on and stays quiet. We actually enjoy the beautiful day.
  Now…. Here is my point. Its all well and good to climb on a soap box to say “Train. Your. Damn. Horse! They don’t work. Crutch for ammies! Blah blah…” but its narrow minded and I’ll argue it’s cruel.
  Horses don’t lie. In each case he had a reason to be legitimately afraid. I could have made him endure the fear - but why when we live in a wonderful world where bonnets exist? I had the power to take away the sound. I could make it go away. To me that’s much kinder than asking him to perform under stress.
  This is getting really long….
  I have a theory that my horse (and maybe other horses) are a bit autistic. Certain stimuli overwhelms them. When I use the bonnet my horse is able to relax and focus. I can be lighter with aids bc he can “hear” them. The bonnet allows him to do his job easier. To me, that is humane.
  Btw, It is not me, I have other horses. This particular horse is a stereotypical super sensitive, overachieving, chestnut tb.
  So I say work smarter, safer, kinder - not harder and be open minded to other solutions.
  Lastly- not everyone is as advanced a rider as you and I, or capable of “Training. The. Horse!”no need to make them feel ashamed of using a bonnet if they’re still working on basics themselves. Sheesh.

• disclaimer- I only use the bonnet when necessary. Probably 6-7 times a year. But those times it’s been a game changer.

[sascha]

Here is your official invitation to come ride my horse. 1st ride her at her current home to get accustomed to her and her to you. You may piaffe to your heart’s content. You may enjoy as many floating half passes as you like.

Then we go to a very busy conservation area with all manner of bikes, runners, children and have the most lovely hack ever.

Next is the Mountain Trail park where you find the joy of playing on obstacles with a focussed happy horse.

Next ship to clinic or show with all manner of crap going on including a loud speaker and/or bullhorn.

Forgot to mention for the first ride I will be sure to organize: kids on bicycles, kids and adults on dirt bikes, someone running a chainsaw, large equipment moving, excavating and generally making a racket, untrained baby horses losing their tiny minds, ship ins unloading, AND the blowing of the air horn several times right up close and personal. Your ride wil not be marred in the least.

Then, we go to the one place with the one sound system that she can’t tolerate so you can tell me how she isn’t trained.

Please, I beg, tell me how I have not got a trained horse after all the other shit. Tell me how I should get her over what may very well be discomfort that causes fear by “training” her better.

You are silly enough to think that reaction to bugs in ears can’t be trained away, and yet you persist in your unwavering righteousness that all horses can be trained to become unreactive to all sounds.

[trubandloki]

@rennyben

Lastly- not everyone is as advanced a rider as you and I, or capable of “Training. The. Horse!”no need to make them feel ashamed of using a bonnet if they’re still working on basics themselves. Sheesh.

This is a pretty common sentiment around here. Like, if you can’t jump the big jumps you should not be showing at all, and other such things people insist.

[endlessclimb]

At some point though, this “make the horse stop being a horse please, I want to be safe!!!” has to stop. Should there be an “ace” division, where all the horses are drugged into oblivion?

How about, if you don’t like your hot horse, buy one that’s more in your skill level, instead of dulling his senses so you can stay on?

[endlessclimb]

@sascha

Please, I beg, tell me how I have not got a trained horse after all the other shit. Tell me how I should get her over what may very well be discomfort that causes fear by “training” her better.

You take her back to the place that she can’t handle and you teach her how to cope.

That’s training. That’s how it works. You don’t pop on the bandaid to avoid the problem.

In your particular case, it sounded like a clinic? Then do whatever you’d like to your hearts content. Screw it, load her up with dorm for all I care.

But when you go to a show, you need to show your horses TRAINING which part of is how they are trained to react to outside stimuli.

For the last time - I am against sound muffling bonnets in a show setting. Outside of that, if you want to avoid training your horse to have some self regulation in their spooking, be my guest. But it goes against the spirit of the “don’t alter your horse’s behavior with artificial crap” rule to remove or muffle one of their senses in order to make your trip prettier.

[sascha]

@endlessclimb

You take her back to the place that she can’t handle and you teach her how to cope.

No, no, you don’t. With ALL the other crap she can handle without issue, there is clearly a deeper issue that would be CRUEL to force her to deal with, FFS. How hard is it to understand?

Yes, it was a clinic. It was also a show facility. The facility owner was kind enough to not use the system for my entire class the few times I showed there (for all the entries in whatever level it was way back then, 2nd probably) because she had seen the clinics (multiple, where we tried that system multiple times) and gave a shit about the horse’s comfort.

Your attitude towards this, otoh, reminds me very much of an incident at Prince George many years ago. Some horses were fine. Others (not that many, but a noticeable number) were completely wigging out at one area of the ring (may have been just outside the ring - I can’t remember all the details) including some badly enough that they withdrew from their classes. Nobody listened to the riders saying that the horses KNEW something that they didn’t, that something was bothering the horses. Nope, bad training, get control of your horses, you numpties! Go home and train some more.

Do you know what they eventually figured out was going on? Horses were getting a mild jolt of electricity from an improperly buried cable. As with tingle voltage in heated water troughs, some horses didn’t react, others reacted extremely.

So, my answer to your BS “Train. Your. Damn. Horse.” is that you that need to start listening more clearly to horses and to people who know their Damn. Horses. far better than you will. “Training” through every possible situation is not only not possible, but sometimes it’s not advisable.

Can you hear a dog whistle? Nope, but your dog will bloody well tell you when it gets its eardrums blasted by one. Horses are not different. Some of us have just been trained to ignore what they are saying and “train” them not to speak to us because they know they won’t be heard.

[atr]

As an older crappy ammy who has some confidence issues, I will now happily take all the allowable crutches I can get away with if I feel the need for them.

[rennyben]

Ha ha ha!
Hmmmmm??? Lets see… sell horse and buy one who may not need bonnet on occasion Or buy a $30 bonnet to use half a dozen times?
$30,0000 vs. $30…. Tough call.

Obviously you do you, I’ll do me. The main reason I jumped in on this was to give a different perspective and informed POV to anyone else reading this thread. I don’t aim to change your mind - just offering a different yet equally valid mindset.
But your ace comment is also way off base. By your argument we shouldn’t fly spray before showing either - no getting rid of things that irritate our horse - who is being kind enough to do his job. No standing in the shade either between classes - all horses must deal with the environment regardless of their individual constitutions. We can all train and gradually accustom our horses to extreme hear for those rare show days when it’s needed. Ooooo…. Maybe cancel the saddle fitter too - bc we can certainly train our horses to continue to perform in spite of the irritating stimuli of a pinching tree or moving cantle. Who cares if it drives him nuts - he’s a horse - train him!! Scrap fuzzy lined girths too - no need to make thin skinned horses more comfortable. If thick skinned horses can use leather then so can all horses. Wait! I’ve got it!!! We all show in the same saddle and bit and bridle!!! We just switch out. If our horses are truly trained it won’t matter. If we can truly ride it won’t matter. Forget dobbin’s welfare and comfort - he should be trained to perform no matter what. Forget that we all have different skill levels as riders and trainers. By God, lets not make this ridiculous sport any easier for our saintly partners putting up with our crap. Train ‘em!!! * kick the dirt and spit on the ground*

[rennyben]

Truth. Your horse is lucky.

[endlessclimb]

@sascha

Yes, it was a clinic. It was also a show facility. The facility owner was kind enough to not use the system for my entire class the few times I showed there (for all the entries in whatever level it was way back then, 2nd probably) because she had seen the clinics (multiple, where we tried that system multiple times) and gave a shit about the horse’s comfort.

Give me a break. You have a horse who is outrageously and unusually fizzy in an environment, and you can’t pinpoint why…

Let’s get real.

If you cared about that horse, you would say “screw a ribbon” and not bring her there.

[endlessclimb]

So… if it makes a horse calmer and easier to ride, we’re ok with racing blinders in the dressage ring? Shadow rolls? If a horse is “most comfortable” in any of the illegal bits, that’s the one we choose? How about running martingales, those would make it safer if the horse spooks and bolts, should we allow those?

[atr]

Ah, the straw men of endless hyperbole.