Because the best way to inspire change is to walk away. What a sad, sad thing to teach and preach.
That is not what I said.
Either you are refusing to see the people who are doing the right thing or you are hanging around a barn that maybe you should leave and try another barn.
I am not saying there are not people like you describe. I am saying that is not all that is out there.
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What a great response. Thank you. And I agree. There’s lots of factors at play. Just wondering if maybe there are some outliers that are driving prices up as well…
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Fair point. Unfortunately, these issues aren’t isolated to one barn. That’s across multiple states, multiple circuits, and mainly it’s the elite circuits that are the worst. It’s the most expensive horses and the richest clientele that I have seen either duped or doing the duping.
This thread isn’t meant to be snarky toward the 99% just trying to make a living. Just sad to me that I know many, many riders who would provide the best homes but they’re priced out of the market. So all the horses are going to fair weather amateurs or the amateurs who don’t actually want to learn and it’s only a matter of time before they break them. I saw one rider show a 3’6 lease all summer (I think it was a $50 or $60k lease) she broke him, tried to fix him, gave up and kept riding him. Now he’s so broken he shouldn’t even be doing cross rails. I’m sure that owner was mortified when she finally sent him back - now completely useless. But hey - she’s the kind of amateur with no budget so she’s what this thread seems to want as a buyer…right?
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I am surprised no one has mentioned the cost of showing as a factor yet.
If I buy a green broke 3 or 4 year old to finish and flip, I am going to have show it X amount of times for it to be considered made. And if I want to sell it as a rated division horse, I’m going to have show it and get it pinned in rated divisions.
I haven’t shown rated in decades, and when I did, I hauled in and showed off the trailer, so I have no idea what it costs, but someone else here will be able to tell you. I’m guessing it’s 1 - 2K per show.
So to get a horse to where it’s considered a made show horse, I’m going to have to spend a minimum of 20 - 30K, just in showing expenses. This is why the price point for a made show horse starts around 50K.
This is also why you see so many drugged horses. Drugging is way cheaper and faster than actually putting the show mileage on the horse.
A professional trainer absolutely has to recoup the money they’ve put into the horse at sale. I can’t imagine how anyone thinks it works otherwise. You don’t make money on every horse, but you have to make enough to pay the bills and stay in business.
Decades ago, part of my business was finding cheap project horses, putting the mileage on them and reselling them. I was looking to produce safe, ammy friendly local horses and all-arounders, not A rated show hunters. Most sold to a student or client already in the barn. On average, out of 4 horses, I would lose money on one, break even on two and do really well on one out of the four. That’s pretty much the way it works.
Even if you start with much higher quality stock than I did, out of four horses, one is likely going to finish as a pro ride only, develop an unsoundness, not like the job, something that keeps it from selling at a profit.
It’s a very tough business and people do it not for the terrific financial opportunity but for passion. Doesn’t mean that they don’t have to pay the bills and keep going.
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You bring up a good point - the show fees are absolute insanity. Can you imagine if the NBA or the NFL required players to pay their own way? We’d have no NBA or NFL.
The best talent usually does not come from money - and that is my point. The ones playing dirty are winning - because they’ve effectively boxed most of the talent out by raising prices and making even local shows unaffordable for most. It did not used to be this way. I’d say this really took off maybe 15 - 20 years ago?
It’s funny because I was also chatting with a Grand Prix rider last year who used to board at the same facility. He told me that his friend had sold a horse to Beezie for $2.4 million but it wasn’t good enough so she gave it to one of her riders. Like what world do we now live in that a $2.4 million horse still isn’t enough? Yeah I know you’re going to say “but money, but expenses” but my point is this: we are in dangerous waters with the prices where they are. This sport has clearly lost sight of the fact that these are animals and these problems I’ve mentioned throughout the thread aren’t going to solve themselves - not with those price tags.
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Perhaps an unrelated question, do people expect horse prices to fall with inflation and everything else going on in the world? Or at least the lower end of the market?
I know I have had two saddles consigned and the tack store said that used saddles aren’t moving like they were before. It just made me wonder if we are starting to see the effects of high hay prices and what not.
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Are people getting priced out of the sport? Yes, absolutely. I’m one of those people.
Is that self defeating? Will there be a smaller and smaller pool of people who can afford to show at the top levels, on Beezie’s cast off $2.4M horses? Yes, and I am interested to see if the sport evolves in response to the shrinking pool of competitors.
So serious question: is your beef really with the price of horses, or with being priced out of the sport, period? Are you struggling to find a place as a rider with ambition and talent, but not huge sums of money?
Is your resentment coming from working your butt off and then getting pinned below a kid who hasn’t put the work in being propped up on an expensive packer?
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Did someone say you should be on Facebook?
I am confused by that rant.
I think the questions that @McGurk asked are relevant to the questions you brought up in the original post.
I am older than dirt (well, not quite). I was a poor kid who took lessens when we could afford them, sometimes once per week, sometimes every other week. I know how it feels to be priced out of something you really want to do.
I am currently totally priced out of all things fancy, not just horses.
Back in the dark ages, horse shows were expensive and fancy horses were expensive too.
I am not seeing the current high prices as being anything different than a cycle that has always been there.
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The behavior of personally attacking people who are trying to talk about something other than themselves - that is a learned behavior from Facebook. Russian troll farms use that tactic to sew mis- and disinformation. The internet, like the horse industry, is much darker than the average person will ever understand.
This thread is not about me and my personal situation. Why do I have to have a personal vendetta to be against horse drugging, poor horsemanship and predatory sellers?
This thread is about highlighting the issues with a sport that I love - a sport I don’t see surviving on the path it’s going. And if it does survive, it’s all but guaranteeing mass suffering of our amazing hard working horses.
The first step of solving any problem is admitting there is one (or in this case - many).
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Oh my… Your life facts are interesting.
I do not see anyone “Personally attacking people who are trying to talk about something other than themselves” for starters. I believe @McGurk is asking about your situation to understand where your questions are coming from. It is easier to answer in a way that is helpful/useful with that type of information.
I would guess that you can not find anyone on this forum who is not against “horse drugging, poor horsemanship and predatory sellers”.
You asked about horse prices and somehow transitioned into ALL people are evil because they drug horses.
I do not make the leap that high horse prices are predatory. Sure, they can be. But not all high prices are. Good horses with great training should be expensive.
Edit to add the part that the OP added to their quoted post after I quoted it. It is below:
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I know my opinion is unpopular, but I do think we’re going to see a downturn. If you think about the majority of people that purchased during covid, they were kids who’s parents wanted them in a no-contact sport, real estate agents who saw the best housing market in history, and new amateurs.
What do all of these categories have in common? They aren’t going to hang on when times get tough.
First thing to go when a parent gets laid off is the horse. Layoffs have already started in multiple sectors.
Real estate is either going to deflate or pop - either way that demo tends to be very flippant with their spending.
Many new amateurs don’t last more than a few years. They realize the sport is hard, progress is slow, and they’d rather do something else.
Just my two cents.
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The only person I see attacking anyone is you when you hear something you don’t like. 
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Who needs the “best” ones? Only a handful. The rest need good quality, fun horses.
Horses aren’t cheap, and shouldn’t be. Owners need to be able to afford feed/vetting/shoeing/saddle fit/body work etc for a horses care. High prices and higher board keep owners who can’t afford the care from owning them.
People who can’t afford them can lease or take lessons until they can. It all works out better in the end for the horses.
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What a strange thread. I am wondering how one could meaningfully “question horse prices.” People buy what they can/are willing to afford. There are people out there who will spend 100’s of thousands for a piece of art for their house, so of course they would spend that or more to have a horse their kid can go out and win prestigious awards on. It just is.
There are plenty of mustangs out there for $125 apiece, and plenty of other horses that need a good home and could benefit from solid training to do a job. It sounds like OP will not be happy on such a beast though, and wants something fancy that can be competitive on the A circuit, but for cheap. I mean, I’d probably like to have a fancier truck, but I also will never pay the prices that new trucks are going for, so I’ll drive my 22 year old Ford while training my bargain basement horses and being happy if we can show locally once in awhile.
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This half of we is having no problem discussing. The other half of the we, not so much.
Horses, like all industries, have cycles. Cycles where people are doing well at work and everyone wants to ride, prices go up for a good horse.
Then some things in life change (like gas prices going thru the roof, so hay prices going thru the roof, so board prices go up like crazy) and lots of people want to get out of horses and the market is filled with Dobbin and Star who are great horses, but no owners so the prices drop.
Right now we are at the point in the cycle where prices are crazy high. It sucks for someone who wants to enter the horse world but has limited money. But this is how all things work. Cycle up, cycle down, cycle up, cycle down.
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Im sorry what? I know 2 people who do and they don’t show hunters and they aren’t anyone I would associate with.
Also you realize there is a market outside of selling hunters?
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Totally fair. And I do hear that point a lot “they need to be expensive to make sure people can afford them”.
But I guess that’s where I fall short because I know a whole lot of people with integrity, who pay their bills on time, who have no debt and won’t get into the market because they don’t want to spend $50k all at once. To your average person, that is a completely reckless purchase.
I do, however, know plenty of “wealthy” people living off of debt, paycheck to paycheck, or spending what’s left of their trust fund like it will never run out.
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Totally fair point. You’re right - this is specific to hunters. Would love to hear about jumpers.
I feel like eventers don’t have this problem as much - but I am not one so that could be a false assumption?
omg I can’t with your posts hahaha Are you for real? So amateurs with money can’t ride? Just stop already.
I ride “giveaways” and “freebies” so I’m certainly not one who can buy a horse in this market. But I’m also educated in the horse world and realize they SHOULD cost money and its good they finally do.
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