Why does no one question horse prices?

[self_made_hunter_jumper]

Ah yes - this sport has done such a great job of self-correcting after decades of people minding their own business.

How many long term abuse cases have been reported to SafeSport since its inception?

[Jealoushe]

@self_made_hunter_jumper

Ah yes - this sport has done such a great job of self-correcting after decades of people minding their own business.

How many long term abuse cases have been reported to SafeSport since its inception

???

PASS THE TEQUILA

[Sleipnir]

OP, so what are you really upset about? Horse prices? Abuse? Drugs? Money laundering? Rich amateurs? Crazy warmbloods? The mob?SafeSport? Illegal immigrants? Canada?
Please elaborate, I just truly want to understand.

[FjordBCRF]

@Jealoushe

@self_made_hunter_jumper

Because that horse is dangerous and it’s going to be some twenty-something that ends up dead or paralyzed. That’s why. Your lack of empathy for a sport with life and death consequences says a lot.

You made this up in your mind over seeing a horse spin and scoot. You have no idea if the horse is dangerous or what the person who bought it wants to do with it. Or are you scared someone might snap it up cheap and beat you in the ring?

I realize now you don’t have a lot of experience outsite your very tiny bubble so I will try and be easier on you.

Plenty of ammies and teenagers can take a horse others can not ride and turn them into solid citizens. You don’t know anything about these situations but jump to the most extreme that someone could get killed.

If you are THAT worried then contact the auction house. Otherwise, MYOEB

For someone who cries about being attacked, you make comments to me like “says a lot”

Every post you make is “saying a lot” about you.

This tells much about OPs experience. I would expect that from a green broke horse, as it’s pretty much the definition and far from a traumatized response. As a teen and in my 20’s, I would have been all over working with a horse like that, and would have been able to ride it out and make it a positive learning experience for the horse. That teens/20’s age range is GREAT for doing that type of work from what I have seen. We have a lot of it in my area as there is a college with several equestrian programs that many of the barns hire students from. Pushing 40, I tend to be a bit more conservative these days

[Spudsmyguy]

Now we’ve moved on to SafeSport. This is just getting crazier and crazier! Next it’ll be sex trafficking rings in the basements of pizza parlors that don’t have basements affecting the prices of horses.

I had avocado toast for breakfast but I would love some hummus. Thx!

[trubandloki]

Is school out for the summer already?

[colorfan]

@self_made_hunter_jumper

Cars have VIN numbers and an entirely traceable supply chain.

Choke, clears throat, have you not heard of chop shops?

[lenapesadie]

George Morris. Mobsters.

I’m sure I missed some

[lenapesadie]

Cheers

[Spudsmyguy]

I sure was missing a good train wreck. Thanks for this thread.

[lenapesadie]

Lolz.

Baby horse ducked out of a jump and now he’s a killer?

And that’s the fault of the seller somehow?

Go get you a kitten and leave horses to the grown ups

[RHdobes563]

@twostinkydogs

@quietann Interesting. And sad. I keep an eye out for Morgans as I had one as a child, but I rarely see them for sale. Saddlebreds too. I just put a deposit on a half Saddlebred. He doesn’t have the best conformation for dressage, but I absolutely love his personality

I am in Maryland and I am seeing a slight softening in the $20-40k range for green to 15 y/o average horses in the mid-Atlantic states. It’s not much, but it’s been noticeable in the last 2-3 weeks. It could be a blip, but I think it’s a response to inflation, the stock market, etc.

The 2022 Lippitt Country Show Featuring The Beautiful Lippitt Morgan Horse.

[RHdobes563]

@ThreeWishes

So many tangents…… my takeaway is that if you suspect nefarious activity a la money laundering I’m sure there are authorities you can contact. That should not be the same as wondering about the high cost of a hobby and it’s upkeep or showing. You’re comparing apples to orangutans

[KBC]

Way to inflate horse prices really needs them to be sold through auction like the high end cattle sales…probably happens at horse sales as well, but I have no knowledge of it.

I do know that deals can be made beforehand to bid up prices, to make the market look stronger than it is, and certain animals look really valuable. It is t money laundering, as much as price setting, but no one HAS to pay inflated prices for anything…

[KBC]

@colorfan

Choke, clears throat, have you not heard of chop shops?

Is that where they butcher the horses who don’t make it?

[2DogsFarm]

A carafe of Cardbordeaux headed your way
Would you care for a side of guac?
Or

[RHdobes563]

@lenapesadie

@self_made_hunter_jumper

Totally fair, thought many of the kings of the sport couldn’t do what they do without the labor (and silence) of illegal immigrants.

I realize I just opened up a whole other can of worms, so please, let the games begin

yawns

I dunno what rock you’ve been living under, but working conditions for grooms has been a hot topic for a while now. Between that and the general labor conditions in the US, labor costs for grooms (documented or not) have increased substantially. Plot twist! That drives horse prices even higher!

I s’pose this might depend on the “level” of racetrack you’re addressing. HOWEVER…

Since I retired nearly four years ago, I have had a chance to watch a LOT of live horseracing online and on television. One program, “America’s Day At The Races” (NYRA racing), does periodic segments about people who work behinds the scenes—the outriders, the grooms, etc. Some of the things that have been featured (and I have been impressed about) are how they are trying to make things ‘better’ for them—language classes, pre-school daycare, citizenship classes, etc. They, also, during the pandemic showed how food and basic need items were distributed to the backstretch workers and families.

Now, not all of the workers at racetracks are immigrants, and I believe most immigrants working are ‘legal.’ Could be wrong, but ADatR throws a BRIGHT spotlight on the NYRA racetracks and their employees, so…

[Impractical_Horsewoman]

OP, did anything specific prompt what has become a “throw spaghetti on the wall” thread? Because there have been a number of threads by posters passionate about showing hunters who are frustrated that despite making a good income and working hard, they are priced out of doing what they love, as well as trainers without client bases at the upper echelons of the sport who are struggling to make things work. But all of them got more sympathetic responses from COTH since they did have some, well, perspective on the issue. Versus suggesting price controls on show horses as a percentage of a profit sellers are allowed to make, like show hunters are akin to rent, food, or utilities.

Also, re: VIN numbers…isn’t there tattooing/microchipping/show records online?

[Scribbler]

@McGurk

Weird question:

How would the money laundering thing even work?

Here’s my (admitted limited) knowledge of money laundering: You have an illegal business that generates cash that you need to funnel through a legitmate business. You find or buy a legitimate business that deals primarily in cash: a food truck, a juice bar, a nail salon, car wash or a casino. If the food truck normally does a grand in business a day, you put another grand of your illegally gotten money in the food truck till, report it and pay taxes on it, and voila! Legitimate income.

How would this work on horse sales? I have a nice, modest, local show hunter worth $50k. I sell it for $50K, but report that I sold it for $150K in order to launder an ill gotten $100K? That doesn’t work. First of all, its not cash, so it’s all traceable. Second of all, banking regulations require banks to report deposits in excess of $10K, so that big deposit would trigger lots of questions, even if broken up into lots of little deposits. Third, the buyer got a 50K horse for 50K - how does that contribute to the inflation of horse prices? Nobody but the seller is going to know he reported the sale as $150K.

Maybe I’m not criminally minded enough, but I just don’t see how it works. I get the taco truck/nail salon/car wash method, but even then you have to be careful that the cash reported is a reasonable amount of income for the size of the business. A casino is probably a better bet for laundering large amounts of cash, because it would be hard for an outside observer to determine exactly how much cash was generated legitimately by gaming and how much was being laundered.

I agree that money laundering or organized crime in the horse show world makes little sense. I mean I’m sure there are kleptocrats around the world paying top dollar for Princess Daughter to have the the best ponies. Also celebrities. Bruce Springsteen can do no wrong in my books!!

But for actual money laundering or organized crime I would think the confluence of gambling and horses at the racetrack would be a much more interesting place to do business. Though with the rise of casinos everywhere it’s much easier to launder money just buying and redeeming chips. Big scandal here actually.

[ThreeWishes]

Here come the edits from text to an emoji 🫣