Every action has an equal and opposite reaction. Your subtle thigh movement isn’t visible to a judge, but it moves the whole saddle. I do expect it could take longer and be harder to train super-subtle cues with some saddles rather than others, but that’s more a reflection on the time we as riders have to train, not a horse’s ability to learn those subtle cues.
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we are talking about the saddle in specific. I would think it is harder, if not impossible, for a horse to feel subtle inner pressures with thick UNsupple cowhide, esp a few layers of it.
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Try jumping on a highly trained Western horse, and see how many unexpected things happen, while all the time the owner is saying “well you asked him to do that”
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i do not jump horses. not at all, not ever. i have seen highly trained western horses…never have ridden one. So i claim ignorance. But in my mind, i wonder, with rhinoceros-hide thick multi layers under the hip-femur…how in the world can they feel subtle thigh pressure.
They gotta go by sway/tilt and bit (well originally bit, then big bit then transferred to neck)
edit: and of course, spurs
This is interesting. I am also bi-saddle and compared my dressage to my western tonight. The western had no flaps so really all that is between my leg and my horse is the thin fender. My dressage is a traditional flap and there is quite a bit under my thigh and leg between my horse.
My husbands dressage is a mono flap and it still is thicker then my fender.
As a side note I make matters worse as I have full sheepskins on my dressage saddles adding quite a bit of bulk under my leg and seat. Both horses move off my leg and seat just like they do without the sheepskin.
I’ve got a new western showing up when it’s built. It will be 19lbs, very little skirting, and no horn.
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I have a pretty healthy respect for those western trainers – especially cutters and reiners – who can make a horse feel like a Maserati.
A million years ago when I was 18 I dated the son of a well known reining trainer in western MA. I worked on the eventing farm not too far from his mother’s – I would hack my horse down to his mother’s farm and we would trade mounts. He got to ride the athletic eventer with all the buttons (and jump him) and I got to ride the fancy AF reiner.
It was pretty humbling. This horse made my nicely trained eventer feel clunky, unsophisticated, and unmanueverable – and I pride myself as someone who can install a lot of seat buttons in a horse. I never forgot that feeling either, even through what felt like a brickton of saddle those horses are quite sensitive to the seat aids.
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Depends on what type of saddle you’re riding in. My western saddle is definitely not thick UNsupple cowhide.
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I couldn’t watch more than a few seconds of that. It is soooooo horrible. And for those who think these horses move like that independently, you’ve got another thing coming. QH are very forgiving, and these horses are mistreated to get them to move like that.
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One side of this discussion has been that actually, no they can’t if they want to be recognized by certain associations/federations. The organizers have to follow the rules of the associations, including but not limited to tack and the policing of that tack.
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Again, I’ll point out that the WDAA rules disallow any saddle but a working Western stock saddle or working Western side saddle. (The latter I’ve never seen in real life but would like to try based on Google pics. They’re intriguing looking.) No value judgment intended. Just pointing out that WDAA/USEF has it’s rules, too.
@RhythmNCruise, I leased a leopard appy when I was a teenager. That horse could jump the moon. This was in the late 80’s/early 90’s & dressage was just becoming a thing in the US. Our massive lesson barn hosted a schooling dressage show & I was super excited to participate on my crazy looking “western” jumping horse. Judge apparently had no problems with his way of going, but noted “Color is a bit loud.” Fortunately, much has changed since then. Last dressage schooling test I was at, people were hollering for the non-traditional horses.
Also know a guy that barrel races one of the giant Percheron mares he uses for plowing & haying. Their runs are always accompanied by thunderous applause. I like that it’s becoming a matter of what an individual horse can do rather than looks in many disciplines!
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@TheDBYC, so cool about the leopard appy. My first horse when I was a teenager was an appaloosa (backyard bred trail horse…green broke, 4yo…completely unsuitable for a green rider with less than a year of lessons under my belt). He was never much of a mover, but that horse tried his heart out and absolutely loved to jump! We did dressage and combined training at the novice and training level (training and 1st level dressage) and had a blast. That was in the late 80’s and early 90’s too! Good times!
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In that case, as has been mentioned several times, it’s in the rules and is part of the traditional tack for the particular discipline.
On the flip side, I showed my AQHA yearling in the longe line futurity many years ago. I was showing him as a hunter under saddle prospect (since he was), but it was a relatively new class and I hadn’t seen a lot of hunter babies shown longe line. The one I did remember, the exhibitor was in a nice shirt and plain vest with gloves, slacks. So I put together an outfit like that. I walked out with my horse to show him and the judges all looked confused and there was a moment of nervous glances and whispers and a ring steward came over and asked where my hat was (meaning western/cowboy hat). I explained that the horse was a hunter under saddle prospect and they said I should have worn breeches, boots, jacket, hunt cap, etc. I explained the outfit I’d seen before and they said that had probably been a pleasure driving prospect and the exhibitor was probably wearing a driving cap.
In the end, some kind soul watching this unfold from the rail gave me her western hat and I wore that to show my hunter baby in longe line. We got third place, so that was cool, but it seemed so stupid to me that I wasn’t allowed to show him if I wasn’t wearing a hat of some sort.
My point being…traditional attire and tack just are what they are. And dressage is steeped in tradition for sure.
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OP, I bet Mike Corcoran could hook you up with a dressage saddle. He makes western and dressage saddles.
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Speaking of seat buttons -
Said friend mentioned above. We switched horses, him on my late (psycho) mare, and me on his very finished western horse.
This horse started doing all sorts of things, culminating in him loping off (yeah, that WP lope). I was up there hysterically laughing saying “I’m experiencing the worlds slowest bolting episode!” Clearly I had asked that horse for it, unknowingly. This was in one of those giant roughout training saddles. I’m 5’1" and the friend is probably 6’, so definitely seat related with the random canter departs!
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100% incorrect. A rear cinch on a western saddle should ALWAYS be snugged up. It keeps the rear of the saddle down, especially during fast and tight turns. It also should be snugged up to prevent a horse from potentially snagging a hoof in it.
Secondly, a connector strap to the front cinch should ALWAYS be used to keep the rear cinch correctly in place, thus avoiding a rodeo! A rear cinch becomes a bucking strap when no connector strap is used.
Thirdly, the rear cinch is in no way meant to be a backup to the front cinch. It just does not work that way. If you are counting on it working that way, also count on ending up on the ground.
Fourthly, throat latches on bridles do serve a purpose. They keep the bridle from being pulled off the horse’s face. As an avid trail rider, all my bridles have throat latches as I have had a bridle without a throat latch pulled off in thick brush.
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This is a custom saddle I had done recently. It is as close contact as an dressage saddle. The seat is very flat. It weighs about 25 lbs.
This is a custom saddle I have been riding in for close to 20 years. Also very close contact, fairly flat seat, but weighs about 38 lbs.
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I’ve spoken to Mike and looked at his dressage saddles. I’m sticking with mine. I’ve had too many custom saddles that didn’t work and I’m done spending money.
Nice saddles!
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It all makes sense now…
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Thank you. I agree her feet are not under her. She is sitting in a chair
seat.
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