Why No Western Saddles Allowed in Regular Dressage?

[Event_Horse]

If we’re going to propose rule changes, how about something more important like safety? Why no helmet requirements in western disciplines?

[beowulf]

Why not… both? It doesn’t have to be one or the other. It’s okay to question tradition. It’s okay to have civil discussions.

Ssome posters here have never looked at the western dressage tests in full and compared them to their dressage equivalent. I can totally understand why someone who has roots in dressage would prefer dressage to WD.

They are not the same.

[cnm161]

Would have to challenge the bridling/bitting rules too, if taking this tack to the USEF Dressage world. It’d be a less uphill battle (so to speak) to go the western dressage route and accept maybe lower placings/scores vs. the ideal WD mover.

[Angela_Freda]

@Maude

. I have to say a dressage saddle with a deep seat and big knee rolls is certainly much more secure but I’ve but I’ve always ended up with a back ache because I’m long legged and the blocks push my knee too far back and jam me in my lower back. Even though my saddle is a hard seat my back never hurts when I get out of my saddle even if my horse is being nappy.

And a saddler can’t customize a Dressage saddle with blocks that don’t do that to your knees?

[rothmpp]

@Maude

Any dressage saddle I’ve had certainly holds me in a lot more than this western saddle. It’s a hard seat with a little patch of paddng under your seat bones. It allows me to sit in balance. I added the buckrolls at the top more for tradition than anything else although the cowboys use them for exactly that, breaking in horses. I have to say a dressage saddle with a deep seat and big knee rolls is certainly much more secure but I’ve but I’ve always ended up with a back ache because I’m long legged and the blocks push my knee too far back and jam me in my lower back. Even though my saddle is a hard seat my back never hurts when I get out of my saddle even if my horse is being nappy.

Again, You’re welcome to do whatever you want saddle-wise, but there are certainly flat, open seat dressage saddle options out there. There is a pro in my area that shows all types of horses, big gaits, choppy gaits, etc… in the flattest panel saddle I have ever seen. Absolutely zero knee blocks. If the knee blocks in your previous saddles were shoving your leg back and giving you a backache the saddle did not fit your leg. Full stop.

There are literally so many options out there for completely custom dressage saddles that would likely ride exactly like your western saddle. Which to be clear, based on the pictures does have a fairly big cantle so it’s not like you are just riding bareback. Maybe you’d be happier in a bigger seat dressage saddle with adjustable/removable knee blocks that will allow you to find your sweet spot.

You also seen to favor chaps with fringe - which is never going to be approved for dressage competition. That back cinch is also never going to be approved.

Like I’ve said in prior posts - good for you for doing what works for you and your horse, but if you want to compete in traditional USEF/DF dressage, you’re going to have to conform to the current saddlery requirements. Organizations have rules and you have to play by those rules until they change.

[Maude]

Again, not interested is recognized showing anymore. Have the Bronze & Silver and not wanting to put the effort into showing for scores for the Gold or year end points. My original post was just wondering why? I realize the rules require a dressage saddle but in going way back the whole point of dressage seems to be lost in the current rules and riding styles.

[Maude]

As I said, in my original post it’s about what my horse prefers Not what I prefer.Only commented about that because of some of the comments made about Western saddles in general

[Maude]

Exactly! Thank you for understanding what it is I’m talking about here.

[TheDBYC]

@Maude

Horse is KWPN and a big mover. More on the muscle than WD is looking for.

Again, so what? Look at it this way: I leased a small tour dressage schoolmaster. Stunning mover. Made my hunter/jumper friends’ jaws drop when they saw him. There’s currently a stallion at our barn who is legit competing Intermediare II/Developing GP. Walked past his (appropriately stud fenced) pasture with our little mare while he was turned out the other day. She ignored him. He politely tried to get her attention with a “Hey, girl! Check out my trot!” and proceeded to trot about 20 strides down the fenceline. This horse appears to forking HOVER in midair while casually trotting the fenceline. He doesn’t even look like the same species as my legitimately well-schooled & fancy moving PSG schoolmaster lease horse.

Does knowing I don’t have the absolutely correct 1 in a million GP stallion put me off from riding tests on the 1 in 100,000 PSG gelding? Or the 1 in 1000 B/N pony mare? Or on any horse so long as both of us are enjoying ourselves & getting something out of it? Nope. Why should it be any different here? Who cares if the KWPN is less than the pinnacle of correct WD movement?

Maybe I’m the only one, but it always baffles me when dressage is held up as elitist & exclusive yet the criteria for the roughly equivalent Western discipline seems much longer. Meanwhile, at every dressage competition I’ve gone to people are enthusiastically cheering & clapping for the non-traditional breed horses. And I’ve ridden clinics with GP level dressage trainers that never said a peep about my mounts that were non-traditional breeds or of limited scope. They simply met us were we were and gave me actionable feedback on how to make that horse better & stronger.

[Willesdon]

Isn’t ‘Western Dressage’ the consequence of riding ‘Dressage’ in a western saddle?

[beowulf]

@TheDBYC

Maybe I’m the only one, but it always makes me chuckle when someone comes out swinging & accuses dressage of being soooooo elitist & exclusive & all the dressage people are big meanies who will push you down & steal your lunch money & western so warm & inclusive. Then in the next breath, “OH, no! I can’t do [whatever Western disciple] because my horse isn’t xyz enough!!”

OP never said this. The only swinging I’ve seen has come from other posters directed at OP.

I ride dressage but the above is not a good look. It’s no wonder so many people have such a poor opinion of our sport with responses like these.

[TheDBYC]

She just said that she couldn’t ride WD with this horse because he’s too on the muscle & long strided. Most riders & horses will never attain the ideal in regular dressage. Why would not attaining the ideal matter in WD, either?

Eta: Fair enough. I went back & revised my comment to be more constructive.

[Jealoushe]

If you know the joke is inappropriate why make it?

[beowulf]

It might be easier to understand if you watch a high scoring WD test, versus a high scoring Dressage test – note the difference between the horse’s movement in particular. Just like in pure dressage, there is a type that is rewarded and a type that is not. I like both, but they are very different and I can understand why someone with a dressage upbringing would not find themselves actualized in WD tests.

[Event_Horse]

@Jealoushe

If you know the joke is inappropriate why make it?

It wasn’t inappropriate. I was just telling the overly sensitive not to make a big deal because it is just a joke.

[Jealoushe]

It is actually, and you knew that or you wouldn’t have added a warning.

So tired of people knowing things are hurtful but doing it anyway because it gives them sad pleasure.

[Event_Horse]

@cutter99

Same bits as performance western horses. Saddles, for the most part, weigh the same. What else is the difference?

You might have specified, but the details of your specification apply elsewhere in the western industry and help to contribute to incorrect assumptions.

Is this specific enough? See the video. Everything I stated is true: mincing trot, 4-beat canter (can it even be called a canter?) so that they look lame.

2020 AQHA Select Western Pleasure

I don’t know why stating a fact about a discipline constitutes being “mean.” This video is from the AQHA World Championship. I stated a fact as to what is being pinned at the highest level of western pleasure competition. All the horses are moving this way - this is what the standard is.

Why do people in a discipline feel they need to defend it no matter what? As I said, I’ve shown dressage and I will freely admit that rollkur is bad and should not be rewarded with placings. And, by the way, rollkur is not unique to dressage - I’ve seen videos of it used on showjumpers and reining horses.

[TheDBYC]

I have watched a decent amount of WD. I agree that it has it’s ideal way of going. What I’m asking is why let the fact that her horse does not embody that WD ideal be a roadblock to participating & enjoying WD? All that matters is that they’re doing something that makes the horse happy & healthy & the rider having fun.

[Event_Horse]

@Jealoushe

It is actually, and you knew that or you wouldn’t have added a warning.

So tired of people knowing things are hurtful but doing it anyway because it gives them sad pleasure.

“Someone who rides dressage but wants to identify as western” is hurtful? So tired of people overreacting and being unreasonably hypersensitive.

[Maude]

Actually, I appreciate a good horse with try. Having never schooled beyond 1st level I took an unpapered 15’2 thoroughbred quarterhorse to Prix St George myself and earned my Bronze and 3 of my Silver scores. I paid $3,500 for her as a 3 1/2 yr old. In…avintage 60’s Stubben Tristan with pencil knee rolls and a flat seat