Best post of the day.
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Ok, if a western saddle can be made comfortable enough for him, why can’t a Dressage saddle be also?
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OK, I’m done. Some of you can untwist your knickers. My OP was just a question. Not questioning the rules but rather why the rules. Some of you guys take yourselves waaaay too seriously. This serves as a great reminder of why having stepped back from dressage competition for years why I don’t miss a good number of the people. Happy Trails
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Really? Seems you’re the one taking it too seriously.
You asked a question and it sparked a discussion. That’s what Coth is about. No need to get upset over it. The thread has been interesting.
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STILL waiting to hear why no dressage saddles in Western Pleasure classes. 
OP, for real, it’s the same thing. The same. One is a western discipline and one is an English discipline and at this point in time and they both have their appropriate tack and attire dictated by traditions going back a long way.
Either show off your horse’s lovely gaits and get the western dressage crowd amped up for looser, bigger moving horses, or keep hunting for an English saddle. I am absolutely sure there is an English saddle out there that would work for both of you, but it might take a whole bunch of time and patience to find it. Also, think about getting a much larger seat size than you are told you need. That can make a huge different in comfort of fit for the rider. (yeah, I know, there are fitters and trainers that would argue, but I will always argue that bigger is a safer choice than too small, or small enough to feel uncomfortable)
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Looking at OPs saddle, i would call that a bucket seat compared to the one i use. Does anyone know of a flatter saddle than this? i think mine is too curvey. I would like more flat. Though i DO have a saddleseat cutback i could try. Its a nice light chestnut color, might look good on my mare…! Anyway, if you know of a good flat saddle, or have one for sale i am interested. Screen Shot 2021-07-08 at 4.27.50 PM|516x500
and UGH! i watched about five of those western horses schlump into the ring…those equine slugs are really pathetic. They seem so lifeless.
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I loved this one and I like Amerigo saddles, but not the oversize knee block. The thing is 8-pond that if your horse has a dippy back and you use a flat tree saddle, you’ll end up with bridging.
https://www.amerigo-saddles.com/saddles/vega-close-contact-dressage/
I have a forty year old Stubben Tristan. It’s not quite a pancake but it’s pretty flat.
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@eightpondfarm, that saddle looks a lot like my Hastilow. I loathe big knee padding, thigh blocks and high cantles. If you’re interested I can message you a pic…I think. I tried over 20 saddles before I found one that fit my horse and me. Not sure which of us was more difficult. I believe Hastilow has a mid-Atlantic US location. I got mine via my PA based saddle fitter.
@Maude I feel your pain (very bad back, knees and left hip). Before I found my saddle I was riding in a bareback pad without stirrups. I had to scratch from a schooling show because USDF requires a saddle. Probably better in retrospect!
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The Amerigo alto also has a nice flat seat. It’s for wide slightly sloping top lines I think.
So why not just say it’s different than what you’re used to? Sorry I’m nitpicking. FWIW, the red princess in my avatar could easily feel me slightly shift my weight to ask for a canter, and that old saddle of mine is well built up, though the leather is very soft, so her canter aid required a very light leg contact, she was a “think” canter kinda girl.
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You actually got your answer as to why the rules, you just didn’t like it. It happens sometimes on these topics.
You might think I’m one of the ones who doesn’t want to question the rules/traditions, but that is actually not true. I’ll be the first to say that since we know way more about bio-mechanics these days we should be seriously re-evaluating what is considered acceptable tack. I’m way on board with ditching the english bulter look and allow dress that represents the athletes we want non-horse people to understand we have to be to ride these horses. But we have to draw the line somewhere and western saddles in english disciplines have many concerns and questions that will take years to address. The back cinch alone is rife for opportunity to add pressure to a horse’s abdominal muscle to alter performance.
I think you sit as well in your western saddle as most people do in their dressage saddles, with the caveat that we are only seeing images and not video in motion, which may tell a completely different story.
Your horse may love the western saddle and felt pad (I know a rider who uses a big western felt pad under her dressage saddle, FWIW) but let’s be totally frank - you’re deluding yourself if you think there is less saddle between you and the horse that many, many english/dressage saddles. Maybe not the giant overflocked, super padded seat saddles that some riders prefer, but there are plenty that are very close fitting. To each her own.
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I’m neither the OP nor a saddle fitter, but my guess is it has something to do with how western saddles rest almost entirely on top of the horse while the gullet points of an English saddle sort of snug down around the horse. Additionally, OP indicates that’s a Wade tree saddle. True ADDer that I am, I went & fell down the Google procrastination rabbit hole with this information:
- Wade style bars are supposedly wider, allowing more saddle surface to contact the horse, thus allowing for looser cinching.
- There’s more rock to the bars, helping to distribute the rider’s weight more evenly.
- The way the fork is designed & cut allows the gullet to sit lower on the horse. This is thought to redistribute the forces exerted during roping, thus helping to alleviate a sore back.
OP isn’t roping in this saddle, so we’ll set aside point #3. So on points 1 and 2:
I now live in a place where the cops are called if you are seen riding western (I’m kidding, I’m kidding! ) When we lived one county west, I did learn to ride western & actually had a draft horse broke solely to it. Something that jumps out at me – Notice in the photos that OP is using a back cinch + breast plate. The back cinch is normally used for roping. A lot of trail, reining, & even barrel saddles don’t even come with a back cinch. And should you want to use one, the connector is way up in the skirt if it even has a connector.
So, why the back cinch? I’m guessing that it enables the OP to cinch looser. Which in turn allows for a slight rock & better rider weight distribution. I’m thinking that the horse a) has something going on where a) it cannot tolerate the normal snugness necessary for a single girth English saddle b) has something muscular-skelatal going on where the more wrapped & fitted English saddle with gullet points is driving it crazy c) or the OP has some soft tissue asymmetry in her body that is causing dysfunctional movement patterns that the horse finds tolerable in the western saddle due to the looser girthing & wider weight distribution area, but finds unacceptable in an English saddle.
My 2 cents. That & $4.98 will get you a latte at Starbucks.
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You would think that all horses in “classical” dressage are great big wonderful movers, because that’s what dressage is “looking for.” Well, we know that’s not true. There are plenty of average movers, even pitty-patting QH types in the ring at dressage shows, both schooling and recognized.
In addition, I know several people who show their horses in both Western and classical dressage, and do just fine in both. They’ll never ride the GP, but they’re having fun and enjoying their horses. No reason you can’t ride your big mover in WD. She knows how to collect, no?
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Ya, that is really, really painful to watch. Luckily WP is not representative of all Western disciplines. What on earth is pleasurable about horses that go like that?
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This is Western pleasure. Has nada to do with western dressage. Find solid cow horses and call us back
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Hasilow does look like it! (found one on ebay and took a zoomed in look at all the pics) Though the hasilow seems to have a plushier panels.
i think i’ll clean the spiderwebs off my old saddleseat and try it. I know it fits me… This mare has the flattest back. There’s a giant shoulder then…flat. Medium width, she’s not portly.
She will probably dip down in time…but for now, her back is flat. And i use a breast collar on her.
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You and I count differently. I did not watch all the horses, but did watch 9, and all of those loped in this order: outside hind, inside hind and outside front hitting the ground together, then inside front. That’s 3 beats.
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Um, because it’s not just different, it’s weird. Perhaps it’s time to develop a thicker skin if someone describing something as weird is enough to ruffle your feathers.
Fwiw, I ride with weird reins. I like them but they are weird, a lot of people would describe them as weird. Some have. They are. That does not diminish their usefulness to me.
My saddle to someone having ridden only one in western or hunt style saddles could also be described as weird. Weird is not an epithet, for fruitbat’s sake!
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Yes, I am fully aware of the difference. If you read the entire thread, another poster “Maybe turn the question up side down. Why no dressage saddles in western disciplines? Puts the rider in a balanced position, allows the horse to move well…”
To which I replied: “Good point except all western pleasure horses I’ve seen DON’T move well - mincing jog trot, 4-beat canters - they all look lame.” The video was posted to prove my point about western pleasure classes - specifically western pleasure. I made no other comments about how horses move in other western disciplines.
Please don’t start lecturing people on their posts unless you have read the full context.
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