Lots of reason for this. Loss of land and the dressage and H/J shows are now on groomed arenas on amazing footing. TBs are gallopers on course and tend to jump a bit flat. Too much money invested in show circuits and the trainers love it. There is no going back.
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Lots of TBs coming OT are built for the Hunter ring. A friend just got a warhorse who could easily do Derbies, but will be aimed at Eventing. New Vocations tends to have pretty nice horses, and a quick glance at the current ones show most of them are very well-built
But most people don’t know how to look at an OT horse moving like an OT horse, look at the conformation, and see in their mind how they’ll move once their bodies are straightened out.
I grew up riding Hunters on groomed arenas with nice footing. TBs weren’t jumping flat, but they also weren’t the insanely round jumpers that most successful WBs are today. That’s another “if some is good, more must be better” reason why WBs became more favored, they naturally had a rounder jump. Less round != flat 
TBs didn’t gallop on courses, the courses are still the same in terms of typical figure 8s with 4-7 stride lines and an in-out and sometimes something different. But the TB did look like he was going faster, as many of these bigger WBs just have such a big stride they’re almost crawling down the line. Again, it’s a move towards what a judge wants to see, vs what was more suitable for the actual hunt field. Someone decided if This horse with a bigger stride, and therefore didn’t look like he was running down the line compared to another, was going to win, then a bigger and bigger stride must be better.
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This thread made me google an old YouTube video of a TB hunter from the 1970s.
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For me? Soundness issues and feet.
I’m not saying I’ll never own another, but it gives me pause.
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I breed TBs for sport (and some for racing too). The “No TBs!” in ISO ads drives me crazy.
My horses are not off the track. They are bred for sport. Their sire is my proven eventing stallion. Their dams are carefully selected for athleticism, brains, and pedigree. I’m producing kind, smart, sound, big-bodied athletes who are quiet and easy to ride. MUCH easier than the WBs I ride for clients. My horses are competitive vs WBs. They move well and jump well, will forgive your mistakes, and will not spook at the same darn thing in the ring every single day. They hack out, trail ride, in groups or alone, on the buckle. They are sound, fat and happy on a forage based diet living out 24/7.
I respond to ads looking for young horses just like mine. Buyers are intrigued, they love the photos and videos…but when I say the horse is a homebred TB they are suddenly not interested. “No TBs.”
My horses are priced more than OTTBs-- they are bred, raised, and started correctly for sport-- but they are still about half the price of similar domestic WBs. I’m “too expensive” for the OTTB buyers, and the wrong breed for serious sport horse buyers.
Whatever, I still enjoy riding and raising my TBs every day.
3yo homebred TB gelding learning to jump. By Saketini.
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4yo homebred TB gelding, qualified for YEH-4 Championships. by Saketini.
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6yo homebred TB gelding, former FEH champ yearling, now eventing with a young rider. By Saketini.
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Saketini. Stallion by Bernardini out of Mining My Business (half sister to Real Quiet).
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I used to think I wanted a warmblood because that was The Thing and then I ended up with an OTTB because that’s what I had the budget for and now I have no desire to look for anything but a TB because of everything here. I’ll risk the jewelry for the brain (and I say this as someone who owns a TB who has had no shortage of physical issues that have burned a hole in my wallet over the last few years).
And, FWIW, my trainer had multiple carefully-bred warmbloods end up with life-ending neurological conditions (including but not limited to EDM) in the span of a handful of years (not all from the same lines either). I know we (general) talk about inbreeding and the closed studbook with TBs but I do wonder about how much those sorts of things are starting to crop up with warmbloods at this point. When my trainer finally got to go horse-shopping for herself again last year she bought a TB (and he has had anaplasmosis and colicked in the last year but I don’t think either of those things can be blamed on his breed).
Perhaps the lesson here is really that horses are a crapshoot on some level no matter how you slice it so just pick whatever poison suits, lol.
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This. My WB was sound sound sound, but multiple TBs I’ve had have major soundness issues (currently one OTTB has KS, neck arthritis and malformation, and neurological issues that are not EPM or Lyme). A friend has a QH pony that’s been lame ONCE in his entire life, and never worn shoes. Meanwhile, stories of nice WBs with EDM and other neuro issues are cropping up all over social and in my extended circles.
It really is a crap shoot. You can X-ray and flex and do all the things, but you never really know.
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I can’t emphasize this point enough. It’s also true for the bigger jumper classes. Even 5-10 years ago, there are numerous posts from me and from PNWJumper about the difference in courses and the way of going that they rewarded or were more challenging for, as we both had TBs showing in the 1.50m-1.60m classes.
I loved my little TB more than life itself and had a lot of success with her, but the courses where she was truly in her element were the bigger, more gallopy courses that you don’t see as often now as the ones that require the horse to be more of a coiled spring. She could do those, but it took more work to get her there and get her to be successful in that element because it wasn’t her natural way of going. PNW had similar experiences with her wonderful Billy. As much as I clicked with my mare (and, interestingly, immediately clicked with PNWJumper’s big guy the one time I sat on him), if I were to try to get back to that level of the sport… I probably would end up with a small warmblood with a lot of blood, vs a TB.
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@EventerAJ, your horses are very, very nice. I never met a horse w Believe It I didn’t love. Mine routinely beat the WB when I was still showing. In fact, many people thought he was a WB.
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I think this demonstrates the vicious cycle that causes some people who could/would ride TBs not to buy them. Why pay $20k for a sport-bred TB when you could pay $30k for a WB that will always command a higher price if you need to sell, even if the quality isn’t any better? It’s annoying to see, especially when some of the “WBs” are just TB crossed with DHH, draft, etc. (Although personally I benefited from this attitude when I bought my Prelim eventer, whom I never could have afforded if he were a WB.)
I imagine that it’s hard for those with nice TB mares not to succumb to the market pressure to breed to a WB stallion instead. I have so much respect for your breeding program, which I know is a labor of love.
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I live in Midwest QH World 
Around here a registered QH can be mid-high 5s 
Appendix still high 4s or more.
What used to truly be the Society All Breed show at Fair may as well be renamed All QH 
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Great link!
That was about a decade before I was competing with any seriousness & already Working Hunter had dumbed down to 4’ from the 4’3" mentioned.
Also happy to see no fake tail 
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@ComingAttraction, I think your post and the title of the thread are two different ideas. Some of us understand what you are saying but the majority of the h/j world has no concept. To them every TB is an OTTB. An OTTB has at least a gate card and has spent time on the track. They are a SUBSET of TBs, as a breed, such as @EventerAJ breeds.
I think one big issue is folks nowadays think an OTTB and TB are the same things. They aren’t.
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Yes, horses are a crapshoot no matter the breed. Bad luck does not discriminate. But why gamble by starting with something that is not what judges want to see off the local levels and/or jump todays courses within the time allowed?
Just sayin here….
If it has the physical build, attitude and trainability, knowledgeable folk wont care what the papers say…but that would be not describe too many of those looking for prospects.
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Your TBs are gorgeous! I love all of them!
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The WB is bred to jump and has several generations of careful selection since the 1950s. The TB has had rigourous selection since the 1750s to produce a fast, tough, athletic, brave horse, full of heart. Most TBs, however, are starting their second career when they become jumpers. A jumping-bred WB is more of a certainty in the crapshoot of competition.
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I was debating about saying this, and I’ve only had 1 warmblood that was given to me—I wasn’t looking for it. But that said, I know a few (again operative word is few because I’m not in the show circles) people who have 1 or more and every single one of them has had mental issues and/or recurring soundness issues that could never be resolved. The one I was given would unpredictably erupt and throw huge, dangerous fits. Obviously there was a reason but no two events were in the same circumstances, nothing happened to startle or scare any of the other horses around at the time, and he tore up cross ties, the end of the barn, light fixtures, tack—you name it. Never could figure it out and had to put him down—he was just too dangerous to everyone around. I’ve had 8 OTTBs, only 1 re-started when I got him at (my age) 14, and while each has had distinctly different personalities and preferences, whatever shortcomings they might have had weren’t in their heads.
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It is very true that many of today’s self styled “trainers” can’t properly train a TB, let alone one off the race track… It’s too bad.
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Too many can’t properly train a WB either, especially one with some blood.
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