why why WHY

[tuckawayfarm]

[QUOTE=spotmenow;8229029]
Maybe 3 years old is a bit of an exaggeration, but I’ve seen four and five years olds advertised for sale that are “starting to put together 3’ courses”. So I get what the OP is saying.[/QUOTE]

There is a huge difference in both the physical and mental maturity of an average three year old and a five year old. We breed and start our own. They are never sat on prior to age three, sometimes later if we get too busy, and start x-rails and small jumps at four or five. By their five year old summer it would not be unusual for them to be jumping 3’ courses. 3’ is tiny for most jumper bred youngsters. A competent pro doesn’t need to put a lot of jumps on a baby to prepare it for the pre-greens or .95m classes.

[toady123]

[QUOTE=tuckawayfarm;8229330]
There is a huge difference in both the physical and mental maturity of an average three year old and a five year old. We breed and start our own. They are never sat on prior to age three, sometimes later if we get too busy, and start x-rails and small jumps at four or five. By their five year old summer it would not be unusual for them to be jumping 3’ courses. 3’ is tiny for most jumper bred youngsters. A competent pro doesn’t need to put a lot of jumps on a baby to prepare it for the pre-greens or .95m classes.[/QUOTE]

I agree with all this, and think your last sentence is of particular importance. Age is, IMO, less important that the means of bringing a horse along.

A competent pro (or amateur for that matter) doesn’t need to ride or jump the crap out of a horse to bring them along in their development from a young age. If their methods are kind and efficient it is entirely possible that a youngster jumping at 3 could no lead a long and illustrious career.

On the other hand if a horse (any horse), is overworked, unconditioned, or generally treated in a manner that does not accommodate their physical limitations, they are going to end up broken.

[trailrider2015]

Well I guess I exaggerated a bit and I will admit that i dont know anything about showing or what each class/division means. i was mad. sue me.

I couldn’t find the jumper ad that made me angry but I did find a few examples.

http://www.horseclicks.com/up-and-coming-sport-horse-dressage-mare/horses/751402

http://www.horseclicks.com/child-safe-3-yr-old-reg-morgan-mare/horses/801715

I guess its just my opinion that 3 year olds shouldn’t be ridden.

[Calvincrowe]

Ah, as I suspected, these are breed specific ads–and in breed shows, there are many 2-3 year olds under saddle and showing. Not my cup of tea, but there you have it. As others said, you aren’t going to find many real hunters or jumpers (* real meaning those who show in USEF/USHJA and local circuit type shows over fences) coursing 3’ and up as 3 year olds.

Take some ads with a grain of salt, though. Just because they claim to have a horse started over fences or going around at 3, doesn’t mean they really are. If you fish in the breed specific pond, you’ll definitely find too-young horses doing too much.

And, hopping on a 3 year old and WTC a bit isn’t going to kill them. A good trainer/ammy knows what the horse can handle mentally and physically. Some youngsters need a job–whether that’s ground work or getting backed, ponied and lightly started. Doesn’t mean you grind them into the ground.

[quietann]

It does seem that the breed show people are more likely to push their horses. They have futurities with cash prizes etc. that the “sport world” doesn’t have (as much. Think Materiale classes for young dressage horses, starting at 3, and YEH series for Young Event Horses aged 4 and 5, etc.) That’s where my “throwaway” comment came from … if you’re in it for the prize money, the horse is “too old” by age 5 or 6 (depends on the breed), and there are always more youngsters out there.

There is a lovely little Morgan at my barn who was a Nationals 3 YO Hunter Pleasure Futurity champion in 1998, so he is 20 years old. He also did well in Road Hack classes when he was a little older. He’s mostly sound, far more sound than my 17 year old mare, and loves his work. (Riding them together is fun; they heat each other up and get very competitive.) His sire is apparently still taking newbies into the Morgan show ring, at age 25.

[NoSuchPerson]

[QUOTE=tuckawayfarm;8229308]
Perhaps, but I wouldn’t associate local shows with “large amounts of money” and “fabulous careers” as described in the OP.[/QUOTE]

Again, there is a world of difference between the meaning of “large amounts of money” among those who live in the land of USEF rated shows and those who find their fun at local shows. I think I paid $4,000 for the horse I have right now and he’s the most expensive horse I’ve ever owned. :lol:

Edited to clarify that the equines I have raised from birth are all by far the most expensive equines I’ve ever owned in terms of money spent, but $4,000 is the most I’ve ever spent on purchasing an equine.

[CHT]

[QUOTE=trailrider2015;8229504]
Well I guess I exaggerated a bit and I will admit that i dont know anything about showing or what each class/division means. i was mad. sue me.

I couldn’t find the jumper ad that made me angry but I did find a few examples.

http://www.horseclicks.com/up-and-coming-sport-horse-dressage-mare/horses/751402

http://www.horseclicks.com/child-safe-3-yr-old-reg-morgan-mare/horses/801715

I guess its just my opinion that 3 year olds shouldn’t be ridden.[/QUOTE]

These horses aren’t even jumping so I am not sure how they are relevant to your post. I am not sure about a double bridle on a 3 year old, but as I am not familiar with saddleseat this may be normal. These horses sound fairly lightly started with good minds that have allowed them to see success in the show ring with limited training.

[Pembroke]

[QUOTE=CHT;8229903]
These horses aren’t even jumping so I am not sure how they are relevant to your post. I am not sure about a double bridle on a 3 year old, but as I am not familiar with saddleseat this may be normal. These horses sound fairly lightly started with good minds that have allowed them to see success in the show ring with limited training.[/QUOTE]

Well, the first horse was started a YEAR ago. A year! So, he was maybe barely two years old, when started. Not cool :no:

And I’m not even talking about the poor three year old, held together by the double bridle.

[toady123]

[QUOTE=CHT;8229903]
These horses aren’t even jumping so I am not sure how they are relevant to your post. I am not sure about a double bridle on a 3 year old, but as I am not familiar with saddleseat this may be normal. These horses sound fairly lightly started with good minds that have allowed them to see success in the show ring with limited training.[/QUOTE]

I agree - neither of those ads screams over-ridden lameness cases. And there is no mention of jumping at all.

There is of course a valid discussion around the starting of horses, age, suitability, etc. But again, I think it’s less around age and more about competence and efficiency.

[Alagirl]

[QUOTE=toady123;8230857]
I agree - neither of those ads screams over-ridden lameness cases. And there is no mention of jumping at all.

There is of course a valid discussion around the starting of horses, age, suitability, etc. But again, I think it’s less around age and more about competence and efficiency.[/QUOTE]

I disagree.
There is a timeframe when working a horse is not ok.
Now, if one does not want o start their horse until it’s 6 years old, more power to them if they can afford it, but 2 yo babies need not be ridden, heck, I hate it when race horses are started and raced that young! And they have a margin of usefulness in that line of thinking.

Anything else should not see serious work before 3…and even then it’s better to err on the side of caution.

Not everybody can baby the horses til they are 7, like the SRS…

but those futurity classes need to go away! I mean, even in-hand classes involve an insane amount of conditioning that are at time hair raising!