Wind sucking, a deal breaker??

[eternalbeginner]

I keep searching for my future companion and I have been offered a horse that is a wind sucker (seller told me straightforward).

It is a 11 yo german warmblood, trained to Prix St. Georg and Intermediate I, but he has never been competed. This is quite strange, too, as he was bought as a 4 yo from Germany. The price is very good for a horse with this training, but I guess they are in need of money right now (closing the business).

The horse is in my town so it would be easy to drop there sometime to see him. The owner says that he has had no problems because of this, but I’m not acquainted with the problem.

What kind of problems should I expect, and what easy would be to fix it, if possible?

[Lmabernathy]

wind sucking as in cribbing? I have a cribber and board a cribber. They wear their collars and it doesn’t bother me. The older one does seem to be a little more prone to colic. The boarder hasn’t been here long enough to know if shes more prone to colic too. If I don’t use the collar on mine he’ll crib on corral panels instead of eat. So the collar is non negotiable for him.

Really depends on if you can find boarding you like that will allow him there. Mine isn’t too destructive but he also doesn’t have access to much wood to destroy. They also do best with 24 hour turn out. Cribbing is a stall vice, left in a stall they will be very bad about it. Outside a stall, it can still occur but not as frequent

[Simkie]

You can’t “fix” cribbing. A collar will deter some horses, but not all.

Often, it’s not a problem. Sometimes, horses would rather crib than eat. It’s all a matter of degree.

The Chronicle had an article in their latest magazine about cribbing and other stereotypies. Let’s see if it’s available online…hmmmm, looks like it’s only available to subscribers. The jist was that horses that crib should be allowed to crib unless there is a medical reason to keep them from cribbing. It’s really the way they cope with stress, and removing that outlet can cause problems.

[Bluey]

I would think that wind sucking is the least of his problems.
If he was trained that far without ever competing, I suspect there is more to that story.

First, any stable vices and quirks are something many just won’t own, much less buy.

If the horse is super wonderful, then you may live with those.
Buying into that kind of scenario, better give it some thought.

I went once to look at a well bred reiner, that only competed once as a youngster, then not again, but the ad said he was such an excellent reiner.
Well, if someone thought they trained him as a reiner, the horse was utterly clueless.
No wonder they didn’t show him after that first time, someone realized they didn’t know what reining is at all.

If you want to check that horse out, could you take a good trainer, one that is competing and successfully right now, to see what that horse really is and knows?

[mvp]

I think it depends on whether or not you will board this horse and whether or not BOs in your area are accepting of cribbers whose habit is not well controlled.

As someone who finds it harder and harder to find good boarding, I’d try to minimize the reasons that I wouldn’t be able to board at a place that checked all my boxes. And as a HO, I would be loathe to have an uncontrolled cribber live next to a horse of mine.

In short, I wouldn’t buy this problem in my situation. But I might buy it if the horse and/or the deal was extraordinary and I would/was able to work with the horse’s problem and BOs to keep him.

It may also be that my understanding of cribbing as “contagious” is outdated. So if I’m wrong in my prejudice, please feel free to ignore my POV!

But I would want to look into the lack of show record more closely. Perhaps this horse comes unglued at shows? That might be hard to fix in an older horse. Perhaps he can’t be kept sound enough with show-legal means? It’s strange that someone would pour that much education into a horse and somehow not show him.

[DunByMistake]

I think you’ve received some really great advice on getting details on why the horse was never shown and I would definitely encourage you to get more info on that.

As far as the cribbing goes… My coach owns a horse that is a dedicated cribber. He had an extremely stressful show life as a young horse (competed in reining to the national champion level), was moved on from that barn to a less than stellar home. He has to wear a collar all the time even though he lives in 24/7 turnout with other horses and his life (appears) to be relatively stress free at this point in time.

I bought an acreage this fall, moved my horse and brought the above horse for a buddy. He was at my place for 4 months. When they were first moved, we still had grass so they ate about 20 hours a day. Then our temp went down to about -35C for a month so I fed them A LOT - they were eating close to 12 hours a day. His lips never touched the fence. When it warmed up and I backed off feeding quite as much, he started to crib. He munched through a few fence rails. I STRONGLY suspect his issues are ulcer pain related as he has other symptoms and he cribs to deal with pain of ulcers. It is hard to keep weight on him as he cribs then doesn’t eat at much. For comparison, he is a 14.2 QH and was eating as much as my 17.3 ISH and the little one was a long way from chubby. He always looks a little ribby.

I think lifestyle changes can make a big difference to a cribber and an owner who really wants to figure out what is stressing out their horse. If you are able to board somewhere with all wire or have your own property, I think it is ideal. I don’t think I’d buy a cribber if I had to board because they are destructive and there are a lot of negative connotations with cribbers. Another issue to consider is if you are prepared to keep this horse forever because selling a cribber can be extremely difficult.

As far as cribbing being contagious, I was a bit worried about having my horse pick up the habit as he has an active mind and I thought he would get a bit bored over winter and might decide cribbing was a good thing to try. He has never done it. However, I have seen another horses seemingly pick up the habit from being exposed to other cribbers. So my mind isn’t made up on that.

[tabula_rashah]

Since he’s a gelding, I’ll assume you mean cribber;) And, no, I will never, ever own another horse that cribs. It’s like nails on a chalkboard times a million for me. Then add in the high chances of colic, ulcers, etc- no thank you!

[Nezzy]

I have a cribber who is manageable. meaning i asked the barn owner if i could hotwire the top rails and was given permission to provide my own solar chager. This prevents him cribbing. He is not kept in a stall. He LOVES to work. He would crib the worst when he was bored. i would possibly take another cribber, but not a cribber that has to do it constantly.

[eternalbeginner]

Yesterday I saw a video of the horse. He does the exercises of Intermediate, but all of them incorrectly. It looks as if he has been taught everything without confirming anything. Not even a steady contact. Yet, as I don’t want the horse to compete, it wouldn’t matter as long as the horse is sound and not too much stressed because of this training.

Regarding the cribbing issue, boarding him wouldn’t be a problem, since I can have him outside 24/7 in a paddock with electrical fencing (tape). But I was wondering if THIS ISSUE could be the explanation for the low price.

Since the horse was bought at 4 and for a large sum of money, and never showed, I was wondering if there could be something else. I don’t think he wasn’t showed because of cribbing, as some of you confirmed.

So there’s something else to add to that problem, something that the owner has not disclosed yet.

Since the horse is in my town, I know people that know people that may know someone who worked there. I think I will find out.

[scheherazadetbmare]

I would not want a cribber. There are many horses that a priced low and do not crib. Wait and buy one of them.

[Sparrowette]

Glad you’re going to do your research. Don’t forget the PPE if you get that far.

[ladyj79]

I loved my cribber, my best hunter. Controlled with a collar.

I take every claim of my horse is trained to x or jumps y but doesn’t show with a giant salt block, because people who even conceive of saying those things are 99% charlatans or simple.

but if horse is nice, sound, and a cheap prospect, neither cribbing nor liar liar owner would deter me.

[findeight]

@eternalbeginner

Yesterday I saw a video of the horse. He does the exercises of Intermediate, but all of them incorrectly. It looks as if he has been taught everything without confirming anything. Not even a steady contact. Yet, as I don’t want the horse to compete, it wouldn’t matter as long as the horse is sound and not too much stressed because of this training…But I was wondering if THIS ISSUE could be the explanation for the low price…

Ah, NO. The cribbing is not the reason he is priced so low. There’s nothing about him that makes him worth much more then a plain old saddle horse just to ride around on. Cribbing might might reduce a price a little bit but bad training reduces it a lot. If he was a great find, he’d have sold right away.

Horses that end up like this one, almost halfway through their lives, that have had specialized training sporadically but not mastered it and have no competition record often have performance limiting behavioral problems that make them difficult to work with. And/or they have never stayed sound enough long enough to get anywhere.

At one point in his life, he was probably an expensive horse and horses are expensive to keep so it makes no sense to let one sit around just running up bills for years. Sellers will tell you they don’t have time, have health issues and no longer can do the work, it belonged to a family member who doesn’t want it yada yada yada…it’s BS, Not when they’ve had it for years. There’s a reason he is still on the market at a bargain price and it’s not cribbing.

BTW, have had two cribbers over the years. They wore collars, no other horses in adjacent stalls “caught it” from them and never had colic issues. They were both older show horses and they sure weren’t offered at greatly reduced prices.

[SaratogaTB]

Research does not indicate that cribbing increases chance of colic. There is also no research to support it being “contagious”. In fact, most recent research indicates its a genetic trait. Agree with the others that as much turn out as possible helps a lot. I’ve had two cribbers and consider them the best horses I’ve come across. Both focused hard workers, very intelligent, and very athletic. The DARE collar has been the best solution for me and when wearing it there is no cribbing. I would buy a cribber again if it was the right horse.

[ladyj79]

I think the colic increase happens with the idiots who think they can “train” the horse not to crib and don’t use a collar or any other means of controlling…I’ve boarded with such a woman who viewed a shrill scolding as an effective training technique. Her two cribbers colicked on the regular.

Fun story, my rider’s top mare was a cribber. He also didn’t like to use a collar because “she doesn’t like it”, so we coated the box at home and shows in cribox. At a big CSI I was doing horses at home and her at the show, so he asked a rider friend to feed her one evening. My rider gets a call later that night “OHMYGOD!! Why didn’t you warn me!!!” Because of course the exposed areas of the door to the box were also coated and he ended up covered in cribox…which has basically the consistency of pitch :lol::lol::lol: But she was 6th in the 1.50 grand prix so we dealt with it.

[Lmabernathy]

I love horses with issues like this! I probably shouldn’t say love but they work out very well for my circumstances! I currently have 6 full time lesson horses and 4 of them have some kind of management issue. 1 is a cribber, 1 has foundered with rotation in all 4 feet, 1 is IR but no known history of laminitis, and 1 has PSSM2. All of these horses get ridden 4-5 time a week sometimes up to 3 hours a day and longer if we go trail riding. I have the kind of facility that makes taking care of these horses easy (multiple dry lots and pastures) Only the cribber gets to go out in pasture. The rest are kept in drylots with round bales and are fed in accordance with whatever issue they are dealing with. None have had an episode of anything since coming here (knock on wood) These horse are a fraction of the cost of a horse with their training without these management issues. Plus most of them actually need the extra exercise to control their condition.

The one that foundered in all 4 feet was the most expensive but still a fraction of her original sale price and half of what they were asking before I had her x-rayed. Was it a gamble? yes! However my vet and I knew if anyone could rehabilitate this mare it was me! Plus the rotation was very mild (1*-3*, the added fact that this mare happens to have exceptionally thick soles, and when the x-rays were preformed she was trimmed short) The only time I ever had any trouble with her feet was when her founder lines grew out on the ground and we had to deal with abcesses for about 45 days about 3 months after I bought her. She’s been sound as a whistle ever since! PS Students want to buy this horse from me all the time but she is not leaving here because no one has shown me they have the facility to care for her properly. Plus, she needs to be ridden much more than one normal rider would be able to. She makes a perfect lesson horse though!

To me, cribbing is a pretty minor issue as long as it can be controlled with a collar. Keep in mind I actually paid for a horse that had rotation in all 4 feet. I admit, I have had very good luck! However, I have been able to have lesson horses I would not have been able to afford otherwise.

[chalice18]

If I found the perfect horse and it happens to crib, I am okay with that, assuming I can either have it at my house or find a BO that is okay with it. However, it really needs to be a great horse to justify it, IMO.

I have a mare that actually cribs a LOT more and seems more stressed if she has a collar on, so I just let her crib, as it’s more tolerable.

I would find out more about the horse and make sure he’s exactly what you want and go from there. Good luck!

[bt1]

Cribbing can be “controlled” “minimized” by “life style changes” basically figuring the cause of the mental or physical discomfort and resolving it…speaking from experience with my boy happy + healthy extremely little or no cribbing, not so happy or healthy more cribbing. It can be controlled with a collar, but it is also their “coping mechanism” and does release “happy hormones” He has not yet in 5 years taught another horse to crib, even the one he has been literally right beside 24/7 for all those years…I think the fact that usually most horses in the barn are sharing the same lifestyle, exposed to the same physical and mental stressors is why cribbing is considered “contagious”.

[supaflyskye]

I owned a lifelong cribber/wind sucker at one point. Collars did nothing at all to control it.
His front teeth ended up being not more than nubs, and the muscles around his throatlatch area were rather overdeveloped. But it never caused him any major problems. Did some damage to our stall doors & fencing though!
Before we moved him to my parents’ property, his whole life he’d never been turned out for more than an hour or two in a day, and never w/ another horse. After we got him on 24/7 turnout, the cribbing/wind sucking pretty much entirely resolved itself in enough time – and he was about 20 years old by that point, it was a very deeply ingrained habit! He just needed not to be isolated & locked up in a stall all the time. After enough time on 24/7 turnout w/ a companion, he would only ever crib on the cross-ties if he was there long enough to get bored.

[China_Doll]

It is thought that cribbing is related to stress and ulcers. I am hearing about horses being treated for ulcers and the cribbing stops.