Windurra social media

It’s interesting how bent out of shape some people get when suggestions are thrown out there. Some of us have ran a busisness before (or are still running one), even in this very industry. Being lambasted for saying, “What if they implemented…” is something else. Especially when people are wanting things to be easier for Boyd and would like to see the facility to continue to thrive.

I get it. No one should have to take 20 different payment methods. No one should have to chase after clients for payment. No one should have to do anything beyond what is already being done at Windurra. People just need to pay and follow the rules. Yes, yes, and yes. However, there are times when taking some extra measures can increase your odds of having fewer issues. Maybe not in this case, and I get that things are limited due to the layout of the place.

Those that have just thrown ideas out there don’t need to be degraded. I am absolutely fascinated that is now considered “victim blaming at its finest” when it’s not blame that people are trying to throw, it’s help. Sure, may not be helpful at all, but many of us aren’t saying, “Boyd sucks and he needs to do xyz. Duh.” even though some are interpreting seemingly everything said as just that.

It’s a discussion. Points are brought up. Questions are brought up. Different processes are brought up.

It’s fine to say, “Yeah, but that wouldn’t work because xyz.” The offense taken to various ideas, is…interesting.

I get that it’s thankless work, and that this is a damn hard industry. You couldn’t pay me enough to return to it. Which is why I’m respectful of those that choose to still stay in the industry and/or support it. Always leave it better than you found it. Follow all landowner/facility rules. Pay the damn payment as you should, when you should, and in whatever method the business accepts. If they want Venmo, just pay Venmo, or whatever.

13 Likes

So how do you prevent them from going through the gates without having paid if you don’t have anyone watching said gate?

4 Likes

Forgot to add to my last post, but I get Boyd being fed the eff up. I get it. Who knows all of the background noise that led up to this. Who knows what he had going on leading up to that moment.

He probably felt a bit powerless, ironically enough. Should he have cooled off and posted something more professional? Yes. He’s human though. I don’t condone his outburst or even his post following that, but I can see why it would happen, on a human level.

13 Likes

There are a number of different methods in use today in various types of facilities that can be reviewed for methods that work. Cost-wise, as well as effectiveness. Plus the suggestions of those working the most closely with Boyd’s process, often the best source of good ideas.

This thread is not the place to redesign Boyd’s schooling payment system for him. But it sounds like it would be a very useful project. He’s got a QR code up, he’s decided on payment in advance, so likely he is already looking at more options as well.

Part of every business is evolving as better, more cost & revenue efficient methods continue to emerge. There is more opportunity for this now than at most points in history.

People can think of hundreds of obstructionist reasons to refuse improvements, saying ‘can’t be done’, ‘won’t work’, etc. & so on. To refuse to even explore. Because: Change :scream:. But resisting improvement won’t keep a business at its best vitality and profitability over time.

My guess is that Boyd is on it already. Will be interesting to see how his process evolves over the next few years.

1 Like

I don’t have a strong opinion on this little contretemps, or that it went public. But here is how I personally would evaluate the two in conflict (although I don’t know enough or care enough to draw conclusions).

On each side: Is behavior of this nature infrequent, or frequent? Both the public and the private. Does it represent who the person is? Or is it a one-off, something that is not characteristic of most of their interactions?

The larger context of the behavior history, individually in the sport as well as with each other, is what I would go by. Re this incident and re expectations of future behavior. If I needed to judge, which I don’t.

Obviously there are many people who think this public incident is important (and perhaps the private side as well). Some people seem very concerned about how this incident reflects on each of them. But the real nature of each of them is background information, imo. For me, the background is information that I personally don’t have.

IMO what is important is what people can expect of each, going forward, based not just on this one incident, but on the history of the person in this milieu. That’s what matters. This incident may, or may not, give some signs and pointers of those expectations.

Just my opinion.

1 Like

This non-response sounds like it was written by AI.

19 Likes

That’s a) ridiculous and b) personal. I don’t use AI to write stuff. I do come from a business & corporate background and that’s how I write.

I’m not going to get into a personal back & forth with you.

10 Likes

Many gates will allow you to use codes/ fobs/ or mobile access.

1 Like

So he needs to shell out $$ and hand out key fobs or go to more aggravation and expense to prevent people from cheating on fees.
I definitely think Boyd’s temper tantrum on FB was out of line, but Ialso don’t think he ought to be expected to go to great lengths to keep people from using his facilities without compensation.

18 Likes

I was just answering your question about how people get through the gate .

1 Like

Holy guacamole.

Less than $15 a month?!?

Where do I sign up??

7 Likes

The conditioning pond and the round pen are right next to the jump ring, which is inside the orange circle in your picture.

Honestly, the more I think about it, the more outrageous it is that anybody would think it’s acceptable to use the property and skip out on the payment.

10 Likes

To me it sounds like that while Boyd has signs up and info on the property and website saying that you need to pay before leaving the property or have a 30-day band, he maybe had not enforced the 30-day ban.

The thing is, when you post rules and you want people to abide by those rules, then you need to enforce consequences.

Based on the messages that CC posted, it sounds like her paying after leaving had not been an issue. It sounds like other people have done similarly.

For the record, I pay by the lesson at my favorite barn. I always try to pay before I leave the barn, but sometimes I forget. 99% I pay by the end of the day. I have occasionally forgotten and paid a day or two later, which I feel bad about. But it is so far not an issue and my instructor has not needed to hunt me down or reprimand me. If she changed her policies, I’d do my best to abide by them. Another barn I am at, they ask us to pay by the month. I’m new to the barn, so kinda just went with ‘drop off a check at my first lesson of the month’ (yes, they are an old school check only barn). This has been fine for the last three or fourth months, but this last month (literally on 8/1) they told me, “Hey, in the future we’d like the monthly money by the 1st of the month”. I did not have my checkbook that day, but I paid them the next available day and I have updated the reminders in my phone to make sure that I bring checks at my last lesson of the month instead of the first lesson. Their faciltiy, their rules.

In other words, there are ways to handle this. We don’t know how much Boyd has allowed previously, we don’t know if Boyd has ever told CC that paying after leaving is unacceptable. We also don’t know how well Boyd/Windurra have been at enforcing the month-long ban for non-payment. And if CC and/or others have made a habit of paying at the end of the day, after leaving the property and without penalty, I can understand why they might think that’s okay.

From what I saw posted on social media, I think both parties could have communicated better. I get Boyd’s frustration - people should pay and he shouldn’t have to chase people down. But also, if people are abusing the rules put in place, he and his staff need to enforce those rules. Otherwise people are going to continue to see how much they can get away with and continue to push boundaries.

Based on what I saw posted on SM and via this thread, I do think Boyd went over the top with his posts. But we also don’t know the history. Maybe Cooper is a repeat offender how has been warned before.

In a perfect world, I think the exchange should have gone more like:
BM: Hey, CC, you schooled 5 horses today and we haven’t received payment yet. As you know, payment is due before you leave the property.
CC: Okay, but Neal handles the payments and he’s busy until later.
BM: Then you should have paid ahead of time. Again, payment is due before you leave the property. And since that did not happen today and it’s not your first incident, you are banned for 30 days.

Stick to the facts and stick to the rules. Keep it simple and keep it brief. Also, document, just in case.

I think that Boyd was probably correct in the broad strokes of this situation. I think he also handled it terribly. I have no opinion about Cooper as I’d never heard about her before this thread. She might be a terrible person, but also sometimes terrible people get caught up in situations where they’re not the bad guy. That doesn’t mean Boyd is the bad guy in this situation.

But it wouldn’t surprise me that Boyd and Windurra need to do a better job of enforcing their rules (and maybe even change things up. And probably not easy or cheap, but it seems like the current honor system is causing a lot of stress for Boyd, so there should be better alternatives). If lots of people are taking advantage of them and Boyd constantly has to chase people down for payment, it’s because people don’t think the 30 day ban will be enforced or it doesn’t matter.

Should Boyd have to deal with this BS? Absolutely not. But some people just suck. So I think he either needs to get more hardline about enforcing rules or find a way to keep people off property without paying.

It’s not easy! But also posting a rant on FB about one particular bad actor is not gonna help.

14 Likes

I’m not going to comment on the social media posts other than to say I’m sure there is a lot of background here that has not been published.

For all the people that say Boyd should redesign the payment system, keep in mind he can just close the place off from public access rather than deal with the headaches. It’s not the payment system that is flawed, it is the honesty of the people using his facility.

We had a local hay guy that made great hay. He would set the hay wagons in a shed and it was self serve and he had a payment box. After many years, he gave it up because people were taking hay without paying. So they were stealing just like people were stealing from the Martins. It doesn’t matter if it is only 10% of the people, as the old saying about a few rotten apples spoiling the whole barrel applies.

Personally, if it were me, I’d close the facility and only let people I knew and trusted come in to use it.

27 Likes

I think it would be cheaper to put one cheater’s head on a stake on FB once.

And why should anyone need to police these people’s debt? It should not cost Martin money to keep others following the rules.

BTW, Cooper was banned for a mere 30 days. Y’all the punishment wasn’t that bad. I will bet any money she’s back with bells on (and Venmo at the ready) on October 1.

13 Likes

I think you’re being optimistic. The amount of rage and vitriol coming from some of the Fans of Boyd was intense. Him humiliating her on social media and keeping the post up for 3 days is not something I’d take lightly.

16 Likes

Had she not posted “receipts” this would have blown over and most people would have no idea what this was about.

The initial post was not up very long. I never saw the comments on it, but all that initial identifying vitriol was deleted.

People here really seemed to take exception to the text exchange, which was private until she made it public.

The combination of all this is what really engaged social media.

10 Likes

I have a lot of sympathy for his situation with people abusing the system at Windurra.

But I do not think it’s okay to say that when someone puts you on SM blast and you respond with some evidence in an effort to clear your name a bit that you are reason it didn’t blow over.

Boyd started and then perpetuated the online thing. Her single attempt to provide some info from her perspective in no reasonable universe can be described as the cause of the online issue given that her single post was bookended by his starting and then continuing the online portion of this mess.

He started it all with that first unhinged (call 911 :astonished:) post. She responded with data. He then doubled down.

He should not be shielded from the consequences of his first decision to put it on SM and have the blame for the whole online thing flipped to her. That’s not fair at all.

It’s fine for anyone to take the view that a public name and shame is the only way to get people to act right. But it’s not okay to say that the namer and shamer should be absolved of all acountability for starting and then continuing merely b/c the other party responds to the opening salvo. How does that even make sense?

Party 1: initial post
Party 2: unemotional response showing clear evidence of what occurred
Party 1: double down post

How does that = Party 2 is the reason the online dog pile didn’t blow over? The dog piles were on the 1st and 3rd posts.

ETA: I believe the above even if CC is a unpopular locally. This is just a discussion of the online behaviour. She should not take all the blame for the online situation when he started it and allowed it go on for almost 800 comments. She made a single post with turned off comments. She took hers down well before he took down his second. If he wants to name and shame, that’s his decision. But he should at least have had the tact to turn of comments. An anonymous shot across the bow with no comments would have been the more professional, classier solution and all the locals would have known the name through the grapevine anyway so it would have been mission accomplished without the tarnish to his rep.

23 Likes

Even if he wanted to close the property to the public, it sounds like that’s not financially feasible.

He relies on that property to train himself and his own horses. In order to maintain the debt on the property, he relies on income from the public using his property. He wrote that he spends thousands of hours a week :woman_shrugging: on physically maintaining the ground conditions, setting the course, etc.

If I were in her position, I would have been much better behaved. An eventing horse seller being labeled an obnoxious thief and a liar by one of the biggest names in the sport is potentially professionally damaging. Who wants to carry that reputation on their horse’s moniker when they show up to compete? She did choose to share that specific information herself, so I guess she’s OK with the consequences. I would not have been.

6 Likes

In Boyd’s defence, people have been genuinely confused or making fun of him over the ‘thousands of hours a week’ thing.

It was poorly drafted, but obvi what he meant was that he spends thousands of hours doing the weekly re-configurations of the jumps and other obstacles. He does this work weekly to keep it fresh and interesting. All that weekly maintenance eventually adds up to thousands of hours.

One more reason not to go off on SM in a highly-emotional state - it makes for wonky drafting. :crazy_face:

11 Likes