Wolves and Trail - Riding on horses

[Kyzteke]

@tkhawk;4494502

I am not very predator friendly. I guess that is because I grew up in India, where we loose at least 100 people a year to leopards and tigers.

Oh please! First of all, not to sound cruel, but India has ALOT of people…100 or so is not threatening the population of India.

Second, India loses far more people to snake bites and starvation every year than it has ever done to leopards & tigers. For that matter, they lose even more to disease caused by rodent infestation of rice than any predator you can think of. So let’s look at this with a clearer, non-hysterical eye, please.

Meanwhile, tigers are highly endangered…Indians are not.

Ditto for Californians. Sorry, but PEOPLE are part of Nature too…it drives me crazy when we think ALL people need to be protected at the expense of every other creature out there. We have plenty of people…as far as I’m concerned, the world could afford to spare a few.:rolleyes:

Yes, wolves can kill a dog – if you read the article by the researchers who hunted & collared over 150 mountain lions, using hounds in Yellowstone Park, a place that has the highest density of wolves in the lower 48, they did not have ONE wolf/dog altercation in over 4 years. NOT ONE! That’s because they didn’t walk in there acting like they owned the place – they managed their hounds carefully, respected the fact that it was the wolves home as well, and paid close attention to “wolf signs”…none of which the guy in Grangesville did.

No, instead, this guy (for “fun”) uses his dear, sweet pooches that he LOFFS SO MUCH :mad: to hunt bear & cat (which I’m assuming he kills when they are in season, and I’m assuming sometimes the hounds get the worst of it), endangering their life on a regular basis. Not HIS life, THEIRS…his dear, precious puppie. PLUEEZE…

And then, when a predator finally turns the tables, they are cruel and horrid. Hey, he walked into THEIR world, they didn’t come into his living room or even up to his porch and attack him.

Yes, I feel sorry for him. I’ve held dogs in my arms while they died…my good dog Loki valiantly lifted himself with his last breath up to lick the tears from my face as he died…after being run over by a car! It was horrible and the memory still haunts me, even though it was over 20 years ago.

But the fact is that bad things happen sometimes and you are not going to prevent them all. Cars kill FAR more dogs than wolves ever will, and I don’t see anyone screaming we should ban them.:no:

If you go into bear country you see signs every where warning you to keep your pet on a leash or keep it close. Again, more PEOPLE are killed by deer every year than wolves have killed IN THE HISTORY OF THIS COUNTRY.

As far as them decimating the deer/elk population, according to a recent report from the Idaho Fish & Game, there are still plentiful elk in the state – actually more than last year – in all areas but two.

So is your dog in danger if you are letting it run loose far from you in wolf and/or bear and/or cat country? Yes.

Is there a good chance if you are riding along with your dog right beside you a pack of wolves will leap out and eat it…not much of one…and it even less likely the wolves will attack you.

And the world is supposed to be for all the creatures…if you go into “their” world, be polite and follow the rules or else stay home in your recliner.

Heaven knows there is little of “their” world left, do we as a species have to gobble it ALL up?

[tkhawk]

Yes more people die from other causes than from leopards and yes India does have a billion people. But when the person who just died is your brother or cousin-that changes everything. Statistics will not provide comfort.

I love wildlife. But I think most people in the west are so far removed from the natural cycle or if they live in a pristine area , they have so much stuff to protect them-from guns to be able to call 911 or houses that can keep anything out, that really is not the wild.

In India, almost nobody owns guns. There is no 911 system at all. So those that live close or in wilderness areas are pretty much on their own. In one area, tigers regularly take out humans. But the humans are too poor and have to still go into the forest to make a living. Leopards are supremely adaptable and can live in suburbia as long as there is cover to hide in the day. A thatched one room hut that may house a family of 6-10 is no protection against a marauding leopard at night when everyone is at sleep.

I remember reading about the account of a British couple that went to a safari in Kenya. A lioness had taken down a cow and so the masai had sought it out and killed it and its companion. These tourists were horrified and went and took photos and were going to expose the “savages” to the world. Well I am like how stupid can you be be? These people have coexisted with the lions and hyenas for centuries if not millenia. The lions and hyenas know not to look at cows and goats as prey-if they do death swiftly follows. It works with the occasional loss of prey. It is the same in India , people have coexisted with lions, tigers, leopards, elepahants, cheetahs(before they became extinct there) , rhinos , crocodiles et all for centuries. People have been dying by them for long too.

It does not mean you wan’t to exterminate them. It just means you be real careful and when you live/have lived in less proteced places, you realize how powerful they can be. You realize that in an instant,you can be prey too. You don’t have a gun, no 911, you just have to make sure that the predator understands that you and/or your livestock are off limits. People have lived together with predators for a long time-just need to know their power and not take them lightly.

Now with wolves, I don’t have an idea. But if I am going to ride in wolf country by myself, well I would like to find out more and take precautions. It is great to have wildlife, but not that much fun when you realize you too are part of the cycle and could be prey if the situation changes. Trying to attack predators is really not that unique to humans. Look at birds of a flock that mob a hawk or a troop of baboons that may look at a leopard that is not hunting and still mob it and chase it away or cape buffalo that will kill lion cubs if they see them. I wonder if it is just part of a natural instinct that we still have left.

[cloudy18]

I think the hatred/fear of wolves goes beyond natural instinct for many people. I think many hunters are greedy and think there should be no competition from the natural world for their game. Many are also very ignorant about wolves and base their anti-wolf arguments on old myths.

What kills me is when I read an article in the local paper about how Joe Smith’s hunting dog was killed by a wolf (or a bear) and they have to point out that the dog was worth $5,000. It’s ALWAYS worth $5,000, yet I see how many of those poor dogs are treated by their owners on a daily basis. Not like $5,000 animals.

Ok, back on track. I actually fear bees more, bc those damn things come out of nowhere and don’t stop, attack horses and humans alike, and can nail everyone in a large group, plus cause bad accidents.

We just had a confirmed wolf kill south of here, a calf. Farmer was compensated, I’m sure the hysteria can rise a little more, and with deer hunting coming up the wolves better stay out of sight. Sad.

[Falconfree]

I’ve never seen a wolf on the trail, but we’ve run into foxes a handful of times (there are two dens that we know of on my grandmother’s acreage) and they have always run away/hid. Once we were at my aunts’ mountain house looked outside and saw a big bear wandering around the back yard. My grandmother’s little spaniel was actually following it around (dumbest dog in the world. very sweet, but she had NO sense of self-preservation), and it just ignored her. It left after having a good sniff, and never even gave the dog a second look. Not that I would have gambled with going outside with the bear there, nor did we ever leave the dog outside alone again there.

On the other hand, I used to volunteer at the local zoo/museum. They have a very sweet buck that adores people, and most of the time volunteers can go right into his cage to feed him/love on him. When he is rutting though, we would have to distract him at one end of his enclosure then quickly change out his food and water at the other end before he noticed the door open. Though he is probably worse than normal when it comes to that, because he is not shy of humans at all.