I guess it all depends how how he lost and how the winner won, but on the face of it, and going on recent form, this would not be a G1 caliber field by European standards.
Red Rocks hasn’t run a good race since his BC Turf win two years ago and has been soundly beaten in every top level race he has run in Europe, HK and Dubai in the interim. He’s a makeweight by euro standards. Better Talk Now hasn’t run a decent race in over a year. Grand Courtier may be competitive stateside, but he wouldn’t be at the races in a Euro G1.
Curlin will face much stiffer opposition at Longchamp, so he would need to put these guys away handily enough to be considered an viable Arc contender.
But then form lines can be deceiving, let’s see what happens on Sat.
If the minority intrest in Curlin is sold at auction, I think we should all get together and buy it! 
What a plan!!!
http://news.bloodhorse.com/article/46055.htm
[QUOTE=Drvmb1ggl3;3347847]
I guess it all depends how how he lost and how the winner won, but on the face of it, and going on recent form, this would not be a G1 caliber field by European standards.[/QUOTE]
Drvmb, who are the best European horses Curlin might face?
Thanks,
RC
[QUOTE=Maybeapril;3348112]
If the minority intrest in Curlin is sold at auction, I think we should all get together and buy it! What a plan!!!
http://news.bloodhorse.com/article/46055.htm[/QUOTE]
How much fun would that be!!
[QUOTE=Maybeapril;3348112]
If the minority intrest in Curlin is sold at auction, I think we should all get together and buy it! What a plan!!!
http://news.bloodhorse.com/article/46055.htm[/QUOTE]
Hmmm a 20% stake in him right now would be worth what? I don’t think I have enough to cover my share in my piggy bank 
[QUOTE=rcloisonne;3349276]
Drvmb, who are the best European horses Curlin might face?
Thanks,
RC[/QUOTE]
Ok, I’ll start:
Zarkava - French Oaks winner, undefeated, will be one of the favorites
Soldier of Fortune
New Approach
Duke of Marmalade
Youmzain (second in 2007 Arc)
Peeping Fawn
Tartan Bearer
He’s not European, but Arc contender Meisho Samson just made an impressive Gr1 1 3/8 mile effort, and boggy turf doesn’t seem to bother him.
edited for clarity
Some of the Arc contenders are already on their summer break, and some will be competing at Ascot this month, then will likely take a break. The Man O War simply does not have the caliber of turf horses that the Ascot meet attracts.
Personally, I’m wondering what’s really going on. They sure aren’t prepping him the traditional way. (the Stephen Foster? Really, now) 
isn’t curlin in the MOW sat. 5:15 pm in ny???
where’s BB?
[QUOTE=cloudyandcallie;3352374]
isn’t curlin in the MOW sat. 5:15 pm in ny???
where’s BB?[/QUOTE]
Yes.
9th (5:15)
Man o’ War S. (G1)
1 3/8 Miles (Inner turf) | Open | 3 Year Olds And Up Stakes | Purse: $500,000
Post # Horse Jockey Weight Claim Price Equip. Med.
1 Better Talk Now Dominguez R A 120 L
2 Grand Couturier (GB) Borel C H 120 L
3 Mission Approved Cohen D 116 L
4 True Cause Maragh R 116 L
5 Sudan (IRE) Velazquez J R 120 L
6 Red Rocks (IRE) Castellano J J 116 Blk-On L
7 Curlin Albarado R J 116 L
Big Brown returned to work last week. He has posted 2 works at Aqueduct, the most recent being this past Monday. No immediate plans have been announced. But this is Curlin’s thread.
I still haven’t decided if I’m going to Belmont on Saturday. I want to but it’s a bit of a haul and will cost me $100+ in gas alone :no: Phooey. At least it will be on TV if I talk myself out of going.
I’ve seen just one official work on the turf:
July 1 -Churchill Downs - 7 furlongs in 1:31.20
The proof will be in the pudding to see if he can handle racing on the surface at the competitive level expected (if not assumed) by so many. I have no problem wagering against him taking the win. I don’t think we’ll see a Dr. Fager or John Henry on the surface let alone Secretariat. Although I’ll be happy to be proven wrong on Saturday afternoon.
I do take issue with the over the top hyperbole by some writers: From the Star Telegram the respected Gary West
If Curlin wins Saturday, count him among the all-time best. The reigning Horse of the Year will make his turf debut at Belmont Park in the $500,000 Man o’ War Stakes.
But even without going to France, he would establish his all-time bona fides with a victory Saturday.
The list of failures or rather flops are lengthy:
Buckpasser, after winning 15 in a row on dirt, ran third in his turf debut, a defeat that scuttled Arc ambitions. Native Diver finished last in his only turf appearance. Key to the Mint ran 11th when he tried the grass, and Foolish Pleasure finished ahead of one horse in his only turf attempt. Turkoman, Temperence Hill, Charismatic, Unbridled, Saint Liam — they all disappointed on turf.
I was there a couple years ago when Jazil tried his hand in the Elkhorn Stakes at Keeneland and looked like a candidate only for the Budweiser beer wagon and not the G1 Belmont Stakes winner he was on dirt.
As an interesting aside the purchase price of Curlin has long been overstated. It was long thought that Jess Jackson, et al paid $3.5 million for the 80% stake in Curlin initially from Midnight Cry. From the lawsuit it was revealed this it was only $2.6M.
Regarding the ability to race in New York State I’m not really clear how that has been resolved. Yes the earlier ruling was that a sale was to take place thus removing the non-eligible status of the one jailed partners. However the judge ruling of July 10, 2008 reversed the mandate
The judge agreed with Stonestreet Stables’ arguments that only the owners of a property, in this case Curlin, could request a partition sale to satisfy a dispute.
“You don’t jeopardize the 80% controlling interest by forcing a sale when the owner has no desire to sell that interest, and shouldn’t be forced,” Getty said in a post-hearing interview. “And the judge agreed with me.”
Ford argued in her motion that the minority interest would be “impaired” if sold separately, further damaging her clients, and would be best resolved to help satisfy the judgment with a 100% sale of Curlin. She further alleged in her filing that Stonestreet Stables had “every incentive to acquire Tandy’s retained interest, but only wishes to do so at the lowest possible price.”
Curlin’s website run by Stonestret Stables which is somewhat up to date. GoCurlin.com
[QUOTE=Glimmerglass;3353637]
Regarding the ability to race in New York State I’m not really clear how that has been resolved. [/QUOTE]
They transfered the 20% interest to a third party. I can’t put my hands on the link right this second. This is my absolutely non-lawyer paraphrase but basically they put the 20% in control of someone not involved in the case for the time being until it can get decided. All the winnings that would go to them go to this third party and will be distributed after it’s all done. That third party is the one that applied for the NY license that is allowing him to run Saturday. I’m pretty sure this was something that Jackson pushed for so he could finish running him for the year without having to worry about the outcome of the trial or a pending sale.
ETA: Ok I still can’t find the original link but this link talks about a lawyer wanting it reveresed
Aha, I finally found it. Link describing the transfer.
Btw, Curlin will be getting 4lbs from the rest of the field in the MOW. The conditions are written in such a way that horses without a Graded win on turf get a break. I guess it’s done like that to attract dirt runners? I thought it was WFA myself.
Odd to see the number one ranked horse in the world getting a weight concession from other runners!
Glimmer-you’re back! Were you on an extended 2nd honeymoon?
Drvmb, or anybody following European racing, can you give us the run down of Red Rock’s PPs? I know he hasn’t been up to par over there, but how does he compare to the field?
[QUOTE=miss_critic;3353830]
Glimmer-you’re back! Were you on an extended 2nd honeymoon? [/QUOTE]
Thanks and yes back to the town we were married for our second anniversary. Needless to say Italy is rather devoid of any racing coverage even on tv although FEI showjumping and Argentine polo was on tv. The notable example being the Palio when we were staying in Tuscany.
Five channels cover the lead up to the race and the race itself live. We never did see what happened to the cherring fan who ran onto the track to pat the winner on the back and never saw the loose horse that plowed in him sans brakes. 1,100 pounds at even 15mph is an ouch situation.
Supposedly there is real racing near Milan and we in somewhat nearby Bellagio for a few days but I didn’t dare ask my wife to make the venture to hunt down the venue.
Anyhow back to getting caught up with racing news.
Does anyone know why Better Talk Now’s rabbit, Shake the Bank, isn’t being employed against Curlin? I know that Curlin is somewhat relaxed unlikely to follow a rabbit on dirt but on turf at under 1 1/2 mi? I would’ve employed Shake myself for the task …
[QUOTE=Glimmerglass;3353931]
Does anyone know why Better Talk Now’s rabbit, Shake the Bank, isn’t being employed against Curlin? I know that Curlin is somewhat relaxed unlikely to follow a rabbit on dirt but on turf at under 1 1/2 mi? I would’ve employed Shake myself for the task …[/QUOTE]
Shake The Bank is running at Delaware in the Caesar Rodney the same day. As far as the reasoning behind that, that I can’t answer that for sure…
Especially since the Caesar Rodney field has a bunch of flat out front runners and the Man o’ War field is a little lacking in pace.
ETA: I take that back about the MoW… there should be enough of a pace to keep Better Talk Now happy between Mission Approved and Sudan… (edited again, for cripes sake I can’t keep my horses straight, haha)
Should be an interesting race!
But I won’t be able to watch, since it supposed to be on ESPNews channel, which my cable doesn’t carry! :no:
BTW, congrats Glimmer on your 2nd anni!
What channel? I get ESPN 1 and 2 and classic. There is another one? That I guess I don’t get either?
Wow, that was a total guess about the nature of your travels! Nice touch.
Looking at BTN’s PPs, although I am a fan, I just don’t see him getting up there. It would be nice to see something happen in this race that will a part of history. We’ve been let down far too much lately. WE deserve it But I bet the handicaps go nuts betting against him this time.
[QUOTE=miss_critic;3354451]
But I bet the handicaps go nuts betting against him this time.[/QUOTE]
What do the morning line odds look like? I’m undecided. Part of me thinks he’s just going to blow them away and part of me thinks he’ll just think maybe he needs to stop for a graze on all that green stuff :winkgrin:
