Thanks for posting the Shergar video, and all these other wonderful races from the past. Glorious horses.
Talking about turns-of-foot (hoof?) and extra gears, a fave of mine is Seattle Slew in the 1978 JCGC in the stretch vs. Exceller, and this after a drag-race in the backstretch - AND after a premature burst through the gate.
That’s not really turn of foot, and least as it’s being discussed re turf racing. If anything, Seattle Slew was the classic example of a wire to wire dirt runner, he broke fast, ran insane fractions, and ground them into the ground with his sustained speed. In a turf race with easy fractions and a sprint to the line he would have been found wanting. But he would have killed the best turf runners in the world on dirt (with the one time exception of Exceller in the JCGC of course!!). About the only time I can remember him showing something close to the TOF we’re talking about was maybe at the top of the stretch in the Kentucky Derby. But by and large he ground his opponents into the dirt with sustained speed.
It’s probably no surprise that his progeny excelled on dirt but were much less spectacular on grass.
To their credit or maybe not, the Curlin conenctions are still keeping grass in mind and would like another shot at it. Racing him in Ireland (a comment made by Jess Jackson) seems like a waste of jet fuel when you can watch him flop just as well Stateside.
Courier-Journal July 13, 2008 - “Jackson: Curlin could still go international”
The wine magnate said a decision probably won’t be made for a week, but that Curlin’s options include a stakes at Ireland’s Leopardstown Race Course, presumably the Sept. 6 Tattersalls Irish Champion Stakes at 1-1/4 miles. Leopardstown is a left-handed course, the same as in America, where most European tracks race right-handed, or clockwise.
Source: From Albany Times Union July 14, 2008
“Curlin looked ordinary to me,” said trainer Gary Contessa, who saddled Mission Approved. “Do you go all the way to France off this race? He just didn’t look like the same horse on turf as he did on dirt. That’s just my opinion. If this race was on dirt, he would have dug in and kicked that horse’s (Red Rocks) butt.”
He is being shipped up to Saratoga today or tomorrow to workout on the Oklahoma Training Track.
[QUOTE=Drvmb1ggl3;3358882]
Oh yeah he did!
Look at the 2:00 min mark in this video of his Derby win, as soon as Walter Swinburn drops the hands he explodes. Still gives me goosebumps 27 years later.[/QUOTE]
Ohh, excellent. I swear, it looks like the video is being fast forwarded. 
Here’s a question: Why do Curlin’s connections hate the synthetic surface at Santa Anita to go to these lengths to avoid it for the Breeders Cup Classic?
Because it seems pretty clear that they want no part of it. I don’t know enough about Asmussen’s preferences to know whether he simply, on principle, won’t run on artificial surfaces (although they’re getting more difficult to avoid) or if the concern is that Curlin simply won’t hold his form on it.
But … why would it be “better” for him to lose on turf than on a synthetic surface?
[QUOTE=Beezer;3360056]
Here’s a question: Why do Curlin’s connections hate the synthetic surface at Santa Anita to go to these lengths to avoid it for the Breeders Cup Classic?[/QUOTE]
I don’t think they hate it as per say. Rather they wanted to try something bigger, better in terms of his legacy which is a noble pursuit. Racing in the Arc would be a far more impressive addition then winning the BCC.
By all accounts typically a horse will not do well going from dirt to synthetic first time. Further some horses simply will never do well on synthetic. I think Lava Man fits into that group. He was great on local (meaning Cali) dirt tracks. They changed and boom he isn’t the man he was.
After seeing Curlin do so-so but not stellar on grass I cannot for the life of me think he’d be a powerhouse on synthetic. So with that in the back of the owner/trainer/jock’s collective minds why risk going to the BCC to end his career with a fizzle?
Thats why I thought - and some of the Curlin fanclub thought otherwise but so be it - Heatseaker would’ve been 'da man to beat in the BCC. He took to that stuff like a fish to water. We’ve never seen Big Brown on it and he’ll likely race for the first time on it in the BCC. That my friend looks like a perfect chance to wager heavily against him and with good odds for the rest of the field. Fools will bet him down - especially if he wins the Haskell strong and he very well might just do that - but that means didly going into racing on a new surface.
A great article
UK - The Times July 15, 2008 “Defeat of Curlin shows problem of defining a true world champion”
America’s Horse of the Year is made to look vulnerable - proving that races on dirt and grass remain poles apart
by Julian Muscat; Commentary
At a time when the proposed Sovereign Series encounters resistance at every turn, much of it from commentators with axes to grind, one initiative that would have truly identified a world champion racehorse predictably faltered in New York on Saturday. Curlin, America’s Horse of the Year, succumbed on his turf debut to the Brian Meehan-trained Red Rocks.
That single brushstroke illustrated just how perplexing is the concept of coralling the sport into a format that crowns a “champion racehorse”. Clumsy efforts persist, yet Curlin’s defeat re-emphasised that racing in different countries has become so diverse as to be irreconcilable beneath a “champions” banner.
It is said that rugby union derived from William Webb Ellis’s desire to handle the football. The two sports have since become so unrecognisable from one another that any attempt to unite them would be laughable. So it is with American dirt racing and its counterpart on turf in Europe. The two codes are poles apart.
Curlin did not remotely resemble himself on Saturday. An entirely new set of circumstances essayed his defeat by Red Rocks, who has yet to win a group one race in Europe. Strengths that have propelled Curlin to exalted heights on dirt were neutralised by the different demands of racing on grass. Here are two for starters.
Curlin’s greatest strength is his attritional, grinding style, yet he ran on a surface that favours acceleration. He is also an unlikely horse on pedigree to stay ten furlongs. While dirt racing regularly mocks such theory, it is not true of grass. The son of a miler from a mare of sprinting origins would be expected to weaken towards the end of an 11-furlong grass race, which is exactly how Curlin ran on Saturday.
That he ran on turf at all is to be applauded. He may yet try again in pursuit of a place in the Prix de l’Arc de Triomphe. Should he do so, it will be a challenge born of old-fashioned sporting virtues. No Sovereign-style bonus could lure a horse who has already banked $10 million - and is worth seven times that sum for stallion duties.
The problem for Curlin’s connections is that they can only guess at which aspect of Saturday’s race usurped their horse. They have detailed knowledge of his requirements on dirt, over which he has assimilated his formidable reputation. If he has climbed many ladders, his turf debut was akin to the long, slippery snake that took him back to the start.
It speaks well of Curlin’s crew that they opted for a genuine attempt at a turf campaign - as opposed to European horses that close their careers with a one-off swipe at the Breeders’ Cup Classic. They may even cite Curlin’s propensity to get beaten on his first run at a new venue as reason to persist.
First-up dirt defeats at Churchill Downs, Belmont Park and Monmouth Park were all avenged with thumping victories on Curlin’s return to those tracks. That is why he ran in a meaningless prep at Nad Al Sheba before his rampant Dubai World Cup triumph.
In reality, however, Curlin is tilting at Arc windmills. Two more imponderables - soft ground and right-hand bends around which he has never raced - would confront him in Paris. And let’s be honest: who enjoys the sight of a magnificent horse reduced to the common herd by a set of disadvantageous circumstances?
More power to his people, who have demonstrated a sense of adventure way beyond what most others would dare with such a valuable asset. Nevertheless, the desire to unite turf and dirt racing in pursuit of a world champion remains elusive. The concept will only survive in the name of sport, and the guise of Curlin’s crew.
The Dubai authorities realise this, which is why World Cup night serves up a mix of turf and dirt races. And there is surely a message here for originators of the Sovereign Series if they believe that the horse accumulating most points is truly the champion. The series makes sense from a marketing perspective, but that is another matter entirely.
For those interested in the Arc, the grey horse in the green silks in this race is the current favourite.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AU-LYwo9XpU
Speaking of Turn of Foot!
To think that Curlin will have to give 8lbs to that horse (along with the likes of New Approach, Tartan Bearer, Vision d’Etat etc) in the Arc, not to mention the Aga Khan’s other cracking horse, the filly Zarkava, who will get a further 3lbs.
So if you can’t beat a perrenial also-ran like Red Rocks…
I was looking for the result of that race on Sunday and couldn’t find it so figured it must be next weekend. Then they ran it on a Mon evening and I was like wtf?.. doh, Bastille day!
I suppose this only reinforces just how superior the really great ones were.
Least we forget that Dr. Fager made his first and only turf start in September 1, 1968 in the United Nations Handicap (Atlantic City) but rather then giving him some flimsey weight assignment - like Curlin’s weak 116 lbs - he toted the highest.
Despite having never run on the grass, he was assigned 134 pounds and giving a whopping 16 pound break to Fort Marcy (turf champion 1967 and, later, Horse of the Year) and Australian champion Tobin Bronze.
So running on a surface of which he was unfamiliar and one that was wet and slick from rainfall, Dr. Fager fought head and head on the lead for the entire 1 3/16 mile distance, winning by a head over Advocator, a turf specialist.
The replay
The don’t make 'em like the Doctor anymore.
[QUOTE=Calico;3362379]
The don’t make 'em like the Doctor anymore.[/QUOTE]
They never did. 
Dr. Fager was a one-off.
[QUOTE=Beezer;3360056]
Why do Curlin’s connections hate the synthetic surface at Santa Anita to go to these lengths to avoid it for the Breeders Cup Classic?[/QUOTE]
Gee, I should have asked Cheryl while we were standing behind her at Lone Star during the running of the Man O’War. It was fabulous. My friend was going on and on about how maybe he would not run well and could stay in America. About an hour later, DH asked if we KNEW she was standing right in front of us while we watched the simulcast? DOH! Neither of us saw her standing there, we were watching the race. So we spent the next hour worrying about what stupid stuff might have bene coming out of our mouths. :o
Curlin was at Keeneland for quite awhile, is that surface very different from Santa Anita?
[QUOTE=Calico;3364605]
So, Mr. Jackson wants our opinion on Curlin’s future http://stonestreetfarms.com/
Interesting.[/QUOTE]
If nothing else the man knows a clever marketing plan. :winkgrin: Now if only I knew what box to check!
[QUOTE=Calico;3364605]
So, Mr. Jackson wants our opinion on Curlin’s future http://stonestreetfarms.com/
Interesting.[/QUOTE]
Per his PR release of July 18, 2008 “[Curlin] Gets 10,000 Votes in Less Than 48 Hours”
“I knew that Curlin had a lot of fans and people invested in his future but this is more than we could have ever expected,” said Mr. Jackson. “It is wonderful to see the public take interest in a horse that is changing the face of the industry for the better.”
Luckily “retire” is just at 7% of the responses
I’m sick and tired of the “retire before he dies” song and dance that is spewed out for just about every horse that steps foot on the track from “fans”. A blog on Evening Attire racing in Philadelphia Park tomorrow was ladden down with too much of that crap.
There is a very high chance - as has been mentioned by the media - for Curlin to race at Saratoga in the Grade 1 $500,000 Woodward Stakes at 1 1/8 miles on dirt on Aug. 30.
The Woodward is a weight-for-age race, not a handicap, so no whines from Jess or Steve with the assigned weight 
[QUOTE=Glimmerglass;3370944]
Per his PR release of July 18, 2008 “[Curlin] Gets 10,000 Votes in Less Than 48 Hours”
Luckily “retire” is just at 7% of the responses
I’m sick and tired of the “retire before he dies” song and dance that is spewed out for just about every horse that steps foot on the track from “fans”. A blog on Evening Attire racing in Philadelphia Park tomorrow was ladden down with too much of that crap.[/QUOTE]
I’m getting mighty tired of it myself. I had to giggle watching EA whomp the field of youngins so easily after reading all those people whine on that blog about what a shame it was that he was still running.
I’m glad they aren’t retiring Curlin yet, and I may even get to see him run live at Saratoga. Here’s hoping gas prices keep going down
Next race: Saratoga’s Woodward!
The graveyard of champions …
Times Union 8-5-08 “Curlin to race at Saratoga”
Curlin, the reigning Horse of the Year, will make his next start at Saratoga.
Owner Jess Jackson, speaking on a national conference call Tuesday afternoon, announced that the 4-year-old colt will run in the Grade I, $500,000 Woodward Stakes on Aug. 30.
“We are going to stay at the Spa,” Jackson said. “We considered many options and decided this is the best place to show his talent and race him on a surface he is already a champion and at a historic venue where we can add to his legend.”
Jackson had also considered running Curlin, last year’s Breeders’ Cup Classic winner, in the $1 million Arlington Million this weekend in Chicago or the $1 million Pacific Classic at Del Mar on Aug. 24.
Curlin has raced 12 times in his career and has eight wins, two seconds and two third-place finishes. He never has raced at Saratoga, although he has been stabled there for the past two summers.
He was last seen in the Man o’War Stakes at Belmont Park on June 12, finishing second in his first race on turf.
