I would have given a lot to have that during corporate working life.
I actually did finally institute it after 7 years. It was the beginning of the end of my employment at that company, because I used a lot of the extra time to look for another job. Within a year I had found a better job elsewhere. It was a lot more fun, but still focused.
I want to print out @dmveventerâs post for all young people entering the workforce 
Between shift work and the cost of showing, I never could figure out a balance and havenât really shown since college. And now the cost is so ridiculous and Iâve invested my disposable (ha) income into a farm instead of boarding one or two and living more modestly⊠I canât.
I said in my first post that how flexible her job is about her work schedule depends on the companyâs culture.
Not all jobs and employers work the same way. My work experience is apparently different from some others on this thread. I think itâs important to share a variety of perspectives.
Obviously you have to have manager approval for whatever leave you take, but there are definitely managers and employers out there that donât care if you take your PTO off as a Friday every month rather than a week in the summer and a week for the holidays.
Thank you so much much again to everyone for the continued discussion! To add a few details about my situation, I interned at this company last summer and spent a lot of time networking with people at different stages in their career regarding the company culture and their views on PTO.
To clarify my original post, I was more specifically seeking advice on managing the horse side of thingsâtips for fitting in riding as a whole regardless of if my companyâs PTO views allow for horse shows, (as @luvmycabanaboy2âs post highlighted), but I truly appreciate all of the career advice shared as well. I also also considered doing dressage and jumping schooling shows like @Long_Time_Lurker recommended, so I appreciate the reminder to keep looking into those.
Everyoneâs responses are long so Iâm not going to respond to every point raised, but I enjoyed reading all of your advice and personal experiences and will consider all of it!
I also found this interesting, because it has not been the culture in hardly any of my jobs either. I can see where in corporate or a job that is Entry level or service industry (restaurant, hospitality, etc) where an employee taking time off could be held against them, but those jobs are often high turn over because of poor management and/or exploitative practices. So Iâd hardly want to stay with them for a year either.
Iâve seen the âyoungerâ generation show a big push towards a better work life balance, breaking former industry norms that were honestly exploitative. PTO is an entitlement and you deserve to take it. As more Millennials and Gen Zs occupy managerial roles, I can only see this improving. Iâm happy to see this shift in my own career path, where more and more managers are embracing of giving employees good flexibility because they understand that very few people live to work and that work/life balance is more important.
I had a mixed experience during my career. My first employer was absolutely BRUTAL in terms of schedule demands⊠it was an international logistics company, and there was a specific inflexible attitude about employeesâ time and squeezing every penny and thensome out of their people. And you definitely were expected to âpay your duesâ your first few years. With that said, I really loved the job and company and the work, and made wonderful lifelong friends there. At that point in my life, I only managed to ride two days a week on average, and occasionally did clinics and lessons, and was lucky to be able to do so on other peopleâs horses (family and friends). Nothing competitive, but it was still very rewarding and enjoyable.
My second employer was very different. It was a consulting position and more project oriented, and work from home was allowed (it wasnât so common at that time, more than a decade ago). I wasnât riding at the time due to other life changes, but I definitely could have in that job. The big challenge there was communication, however. There was constantly a flood of email to manage. That was part of the price to pay for all the flexibility and work from home that was allowed. One thing I found really helpful in managing was to get up really early, logon, and try and get a lot of project emails pushed out between 5 and 6 am over coffee, and then manage responses during the day. Iâve always been more mentally productive and organized in the AM after a good sleep though. Working out or riding in the evening is optimal for me, and I find it rejuvenating, but sometimes itâs a hard push if itâs a long and mentally grueling day.
As far as healthy work life balance, the reality is that a majority of married people and families now have two people working full time. And that has forced many employers to have to be more reasonable in demands on folks. People who have kids will have to leave early at times when after school care falls through, or kids have a youth sporting event, etc. Iâm a stay at home mom now, because of the nature of my husbandâs career, but I am definitely not the norm in my group of parents, and will see both momâs and dads dropping off and picking up at kidsâ activities, etc, and the timing frequently means people had to leave work early to do it.
A lot also depends on the nature of the work you are doing OP. Some careers allow you to have more control over your schedule, workload, etc, and are more predictable. Others, like the project based consulting I did for a while, are sort of feast or famine, and can be incredibly intense with long hours at times when preparing for customer presentations, etc, or light at other times. It just depends.
Meh, I donât fully agree with this. There are certain cases where this is true (an accountant probably shouldnât plan on being gone for the month of April, etc), but in general if an office canât function without a single employee for a few days thatâs on them, and a sign of a poorly run organization. There are way more people whoâve been tricked into thinking theyâre critical to the functioning of their workplace than there are people who are legitimately indispensable. I see this a lot with entry-level people who are eager to get their careers started; itâs generally a good thing to work extra hard at first so you can dial it back later, but even new people have lives and need time away to recharge. I would never expect an employee to reschedule something like a wedding or long-planned travel just because it became inconvenient for the company.
Being cognizant about how you might be perceived (even if peopleâs perceptions are stupid) is different from buying into the idea that work should come before everything else. A smart employee will be strategic about making themselves available when itâs more convenient for them so that when they do need to hold fast to leave plans they have already put themselves in managementâs view as a hard worker. The company doesnât always win in these conversations - thatâs not work/life balance any more than an employee taking leave based solely on whatâs convenient for them.
I tend to agree with this post. I should have put in my post that I have a senior level job and I get 24 hrs of PTO a month with no limit on accrual. When I want to take my PTO, Iâm going to take it.
I used to be so worried about taking it and for about 5 years there, I was called in at all hours of the day and night. I had a stretch where I worked 23 days straight and had one day off and worked 17 days straight after that. I dedicated myself to the mission I was on. Well, it was cool and I got to travel and was paid incredibly well. I was also burnt the hell out. Canât imagine doing that now. Wonât do that now. Do not advise anyone to do that.
I get the company culture and making good impressions, but setting boundaries and having a work life balance to me is so important. I donât want to be with a company that is going to be riding me about days I take off or trying to deny my stuff. I put it in the calendar and those days, Iâm off. Do not call me in, I will not email/call/text back. Like at this point, Iâm not going to play the passive aggressive game about vacation and time off.
Fwiw, I had horses when I was working at the start with all those impossible hours. I made it work but I had to cut myself a lot of slack. If I could just ride for 20 mins on a loose rein, that was good enough for me.
OP, I donât know what industry youâre in or what your job description is so like others say, feel it out. You can make it work without PTO if you want. Just have to adjust what you can do for a short time.
Iâll pop in for this! Caveat: I donât work remote and my hours are set.
Anyways, sorry for the novel. Iâve switched jobs recently and itâs taken 8 months to figure out what works. Iâve had to move barns and switch trainers and do all kinds of other stuff because I realized I wasnât going out to the barn and it was honestly a stressor in my life rather than fun. Good luck!
I agree maybe focus more on your job right now. Everyone is replaceable. Getting along in your career so you can afford horses is a good incentive!
Generally, to take most PTO, it usually has to be approved, meaning there are no âwork exigenciesâ (as defined by your manager. ) Otherwise, you can have leave denied. Putting leave in way ahead is one way to avoid that argument by your manager as your manager was on notice and could work the work around your leave. The other thing is if you have a hectic officeâremind your boss when you are going to be off-because your leave plans might not be the first thing on their mind-(granted quietly disappearing form the office without a reminder might be preferredâŠ) Yes they should have known but most managers have a lot going on. Some offices want employees to put âout of officeâ on your meeting calendar-makes it easier for everyone to plan work.
The other point is maybe you just do one day jumper shows/dressage events rather than multiple day events for now.
For those established in their workplaces and careers, of course whatever is working for you re time off and management style is fine.
For those starting out, even new to a company on a career transition, I would caution against making assumptions and judgments about how a company should be run, in your opinion. Of course everyone has their opinions about their workplace and others. But the culture and management you are in is what counts â if you want management to see you as âdoing wellâ there, with the long-term benefits that accrue to that perception.
The idea that âif they canât run without a worker for several days, they are being managed poorlyâ is a value judgment that may or may not be argued as objectively true. The problem with that assumption is that it requires a staffing level that can pick up the slack of a worker being gone and still keeping up. These days, few companies run that way any more.
The reality for a couple of decades now is that companies are under-staffed in most areas. Even the largest corporate employers have been shedding employee positions for years. There is more work to be done than there are people-hours available to do it. AND everything is on deadline â no, not artificial deadlines, but deadlines that cost money to miss. The artificial deadlines and make-work tasks hit the trash can long ago in an effort to survive.
So not only do employees not have a better chance at scheduling PTO than a request for the time they want to take off, they are already volunteering far more than 40 hours per week to keep the company running and profitable. Employees and management discuss when the company has the most slack to allow someone to be gone â itâs a negotiation.
Get to know the truth about your companyâs situation, staffing and financial flexibility, before taking a PTO scheduling as a âcauseâ to management. They may just look at you and make a note as to how you fit their mission â or not.
In the end, larger companies especially are NOT looking for the highest performers. What they need most is people who will perform adequately, but just as important, fit within their system.
Think: U.S. Post Office. The USPS is an extreme case, which makes it an easy comparison. Anyone who cannot build their lives around the archaic USPS scheduling and management style just isnât their employee for long. No matter how well they may master the tasks and machinery, because that isnât the most important employee attribute to work there. Iâve known USPS employees and they have to make peace with whatever the USPS will offer them for scheduling PTO. They have settled into a trade-off with their employerâs demands against the benefits, whatever their reasons.
Fortunately most employers are not that extreme. But some well-paying positions are what they are, re company structure, culture and management style.
Fwiw, figuring all this out before applying for or accepting a job with any company is crucial, but unfortunately not well understood by job-searchers. I wish there were more transparency from companies about this, but sometimes management has deluded itself and doesnât know what employees really think. The reality of working in a particular company can be hard to determine just from the interview process.
If someone wants to make themselves into an in-house-lawyer pressing for their own way in things, pushing management for a different style, maybe even bringing in their own legal representation to make their case, have at it. Thatâs not a long-term career strategy â but on the other hand, every office has at least one. 
OP, as you go one in life & career, keep an eye out for the 4-day-work-week employers. The ones with a normal employee schedule is 4 x 10-hour days every week. Of course everyone wants Friday to be the off day. Find out about that as well â some companies these days are barely open on Friday any more.
Every career employee who is a serious competitive athlete faces these same scheduling issues. You wonât be the only one. You may find that you can make that work for you.
The good side for the company is that successful athletic competitors are usually also successful in other areas of life. They know how to do things, to lay out the progressive steps to achieve a goal. They are good time managers. That usually applies to anyone who has a strong commitment to a particular hobby, endeavor or cause outside of work. As long as it isnât interfering with the work, smart companies like these employees. Sometimes they will even celebrate their successes visibly in the workforce, seeing it as generally inspiring and motivational.
If you can find these fellow travelers and make this work for you in conversations with management, hopefully everyone will benefit. But it has to be shown how the company mission and purpose benefits to make it sell. Donât lawyer it, rather make it a win-win discussion.
Also, having managed a very time-compressed schedule of work & personal life ⊠I fully agree with the numbered schemes that have been posted above!
You will be living out of your car, mostly. Many days at home only enough time to re-stock food & necessaries for the car, sleep, and the next morning get ready to go again. 
You may already be doing all this as you obviously have multiple important things going on in your life ⊠but tips âŠ
Especially, bringing one gear bag per activity with clothing & shoes & gear with you to change on the fly. With everything in it for that change. I was thinking about the days when I regularly had as many as 3 to 5 clothing changes in the car on some days! 
You need more than one set of make-up/cosmetics. Your normal home set, and at least one travel set that goes with you in a gear bag. Having more than one set becomes very convenient when you are on the move a lot. If you like bangles and such decor, you might want to have multiples of those as well, to distribute among the gear bags as needed. Cuts down on repetitive assembly and disassembly. (You are probably already on this page.)
I found duffel and other types of bags for clothing and gear piled in the car to be cumbersome and difficult to grab quickly when needed. They donât stack, they fall over, it can be difficult to sort through and grab just the one you want.
I use those plastic crates lined up in the back of a compact SUV, even across the back seat, to keep the bags of stuff easy to grab, and later to return to a spot. Also extra items and water bottles can be loose in the âgymâ crate or âbarnâ crate if that is more convenient. Any kind-of-boxy container that fits the need can work to make transitions faster & easier.
Further to conducting life out of the car, if no one else is with you in the car, there are caddies available on Amazon for the front passenger seat that are very helpful for keeping things in easy to reach while driving. Snacks, tissues, sanitizer (good for hand clean up if you are eating in the car), extra napkins, glasses case, small purse, earbuds, etc. I even have a tiny flashlight and a small round-end pair of scissors in there (I use those scissors on something several times a week! lol). I donât have to look for it, it is just there.
A small plastic tub on the floor of the front passenger seat is convenient for your tablet/computer case and purse/bag. The tub will keep it clean and is also a repository for things you stop & purchase on the way. And the tub keeps things from sliding under the car seat.
When you do want to make room for a passenger(s), caddies and tubs are easily transferred to the trunk or the back of an suv.
Once while living on the farm, my dog (when younger) thought he had lost me on a long farm walk through woods and meadows. Poor dog wisely decided to go back home. He went to my car, not the actual house, and huddled there to wait. A barn friend saw him and texted to let me know âyour dog is at your car and looks upsetâ. Dog thought we lived in the car â he wasnât wrong, really.
Iâm that person that always rode, with very few exceptions. My family supported me as a child/teen but we never had expensive horses and Iâd do 3-4 shows a year. Here are my thoughts.
I took a year off after high school, did a working student gig for a few months. Wanted to go to England, sold my horses, used the money to go. Worked at some yards there for 4 months then traveled for about 6 weeks. It was a cool experience. I returned for University in the fall.
For 3 out of 4 years at Uni I kept a horse all year. The one year I didnât, my grades improved (from very good, to great) as I spent more time on homework, but I was miserable.
After graduation I didnât have a job lined up. I lived with relatives for a bit and took some jobs that fed me but werenât career-advancing. I kept riding, and even tried making money as a horse trainer/instructor for one summer. I didnât like the full time professional equestrian life.
Went to law school and kept a horse for the first 2 years. Definitely would have gotten better grades without riding, but⊠oh well. I was competing regularly in the summer, and was going to use the commission from that sale horse to fund my tuition. But the horse failed the vet⊠My 3rd year I went on exchange, left my horse, and actually did some of those University things. Iâm glad I did.
Then I graduated and worked hard the 1st and 2nd years, riding early mornings and late nights, in the dark sometimes. My horse went lame and had to be rehabbed. When work drains you, thereâs nothing less fun than your horse time being miserable and draining too.
By the 3rd year I was able to schedule some longer weekends and competitions, but there were times that my bosses pushed back hard. I was in no position to lose my job at that point, and I felt awfully lonely, broke, and tired. In hindsight I didnât have much support and was depressed by my work culture.
Iâm 14 years into my career now, and have run my own firm for the last 7.5 years.
Upsides: I have more flexibility in my schedule as Iâm the boss. I donât have a big-firm salary or hours, so I do have the ability to ride 4-6 days a week except during the deeps of winter as I donât have an indoor where I board.
Some people think Iâve got it made. But, I donât have a retirement fund which I could have had if I didnât spend so much on horses in my 20s and 30s.
When things have to get done at work, itâs down to me on evenings and weekends. The buck stops with me for clientsâ needs as well as making payroll and rent. When money is tight at work, my lesson/show budget is down.
I finally bought a small house and it took me almost 10 years to be in a position to have a down payment. Partly because I spent so much on the horses.
I donât have much time for additional relationships (dating, friends) as Iâm often too mentally tired. I get up, work, ride, and try to fit some exercise in. I got a dog to force me to leave the office and go outside!
I think everyone makes choices and then lives with them. If I were in a less remote area, lessons and clinics and shows would be nearer and cheaper to get to. But I maybe wouldnât have been able to afford a house.
Good luck, you will figure it out. If things arenât working, try to look into it sooner rather than hoping theyâll get better by themselves!
Lots of good advice here. So much depends on the workplace culture. Iâm working in academic support - Iâm a programmer/analyst with a biostatistics background - paid at least 50% less than I could get in big pharma - but I get a lot of flexibility in scheduling, e.g. multiple long weekends this year on account of The Carâs big win at Greenwich. I have theoretically unlimited PTO, and am around average in days taken off. But I can afford to turn down a bigger salary, which a lot of people canât, especially early in their careers.
(What I canât afford is another horse, which is breaking my heart right now because I tried the most adorable perfect palomino Morgan pony mare on Friday - and then came home and figured out that I canât afford the time or the money she needs. Sigh.)
Wow, there is a lot of terrific career advice in this thread!
I am a retired engineer. I too focused on my career in the first few years out of college. I also found that every time I changed employers, or even locations inside of a company, I had to focus on my career to establish my reputation in the organization. All the advice here around that is absolutely the same as my experience.
Even if work environments have gotten better about balance, you are still going to have to assess the flexibility. Newer employees should be careful here. I remember one new employee, like just out of college, asking me if she could get some mentoring. I told her that I was usually at my desk after 5, and she could just come by. She told me that she left at 4:30 every day - she had âyoga and stuffâ. Umm, right, and Iâm busy with my day job during the day, and donât have time for extras, like mentoring you, in order to accommodate your schedule. This did not leave a positive impression.
Iâve also soft-pedaled my equestrian experiences at work - and other places as well. I think there is a lot of bias about riding as a sport for rich people - I donât want to engage on that or be the subject of judgment around it, so I just try to avoid the conversation in general.
As far as competing: Taking 8-10 Fridays off each year, especially in a 5 month sequence, may not work out. While itâs true that 5 days off = 5 days off, if Friday is a busy time in your organization, then taking 5 busy days off /=/ 4 not-busy days + one busy day. Itâs easier sometimes to arrange coverage for one week than arrange 5 separate coverage events. Youâll have to see how this works.
As far as riding tips:
Good luck with this transition!
I disagree. If a company only functions assuming 100% attendance from everyone all the time it is not a well-run business, full stop. There are plenty of poorly run companies out there but that doesnât make it right, and anyone working for one needs to be careful not to put more into the company than theyâre getting out. When itâs time for layoffs theyâll kick you to the curb no matter how âessentialâ they claimed you were when you tried to take time off.
Really depends on the field but I think places like this are the exception, not the rule. There are 100% still plenty of fake deadlines, artificial crises, and pointless busywork assignments that get dumped on people.
Things really arenât as rough out there as some of these posts make it sound. Being committed early in your career doesnât have to mean living out of your car or working insane hours or giving up a social life and/or riding. Some fields, sure, and OP would probably know if they were going into finance or medicine or something with that kind of intensity. There are plenty of places out there where you can easily navigate a solid balance, and OP will have access to more of those with a year or two of work experience on their resume.
One more thing. Try to find someone to ride with. It doesnât matter if they do a different discipline, just that you will both plan to be at the barn at 6, and show up at 6. And drag your horse out even if itâs dark. And putz around even if youâre tired.
Since I was part of sending the thread down a sidetrack hereâs some horse-specific advice to bring it back to your main question:
Agree with others that it can help to live and/or work close to the barn, but in some areas itâs not possible and itâs still doable. Iâve always driven 45-60 minutes to the barn and consistently ride 5-6 days a week (and I donât work remotely either). I chose my barn because even though itâs not close, the roads I take donât get too much traffic so my drive is predictable even in rush hour. If you live in a high traffic area choosing your route can be more important than just picking the closest place.
Having a really good trainer is key, both for helping fill in if you go through a busy patch at work and canât get out to the barn, but also for helping you set goals and make a realistic plan to get there based on whatâs feasible for you with work and other responsibilities. Iâve never been in a full service program and donât plan to but I still like having someone shoulder some of the mental load so its not just on me to make and execute a plan.
Also echo giving yourself grace. Missing a ride here and there will not hold you back from your competitive goals. Itâs ok. Find a barn with care you trust so you donât feel like you have to go out every day if you have other things going on, or need to travel for work at some point.
OP- as you can see- opinions on this thread vary. So do companiesâ culture. When I interviewed, I ask about the company and divisionâs culture- scheduling, flexibility etc. Not just from a horse perspective- from a family perspective.
I can tell you what works/has worked for me. Starting out, I never let my career totally consume me. I balanced it by getting a job within a decent commute and keeping my horse at a barn within a decent distance. This worked for me. As I progressed in my career, I bought a small farm and now can flex my riding (this too, comes at a price).
When I started out, I didnât necessarily have the finacnces to be showing rated, so taking off on a Friday was not an issue. However, I have always worked for large companies that have generous time off allowances. That is what I chose.
30 years in the industry later, I have proven myself and I have incredible flexibility. In my job, I am online or in the office when I need to be (I am online with Asian companies 10 PM our times weekly) and have the flexibility when I am remote to ride when I donât have meetings, I spent a month in Ocala showing, I can take off for lessons. That came with proving myself competent at my job, but I never sacrificed my home/horse life at my jobâs expense. That is what has worked FOR ME.
Larger companies have taken a turn for valuing work/life balance on paper. Those are questions I ask when an offer is made and being contemplated. The negative of large companies- layoffs, restructuring etc.
I am now in a situation that I do take off for competitions. I am more tethered to my job than I like to admit and do have a hard time disconnencting-though our company encourages it.
Basically- I never gave up my riding, I did smaller, weekend shows when I was a newbie. I was able to find a good balance between a career and what I really enjoy- being there for my family, horses and friends.
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