I’ve had career exposure to a number of different work environments. Primarily large corporate. Including a lot of interaction with HR. And hiring and onboarding new employees. I know of what I speak.
There are employers for whom the job is a mission. They have a military-like focus on the mission. They need a workforce that is similarly focused.
Every employee needs to choose the workplace where they can manage within the system of that culture. That’s not an extreme situation. It’s life, no matter what you do.
I think we are getting one particular opinion of the corporate world. I know a lot of adult amateurs who work in a wide range of fields and they somehow all manage to ride and show their horses without getting fired for asking for time off.
If her new job is anything like my company, she’s gonna get a grand total of 2 weeks of leave per year. If she wants to spend 1 of them spread out over 5 separate weeks, that may actually be less disruptive than a full break.
This whole “your job is your purpose!” shtick works so long as your job also holds up the “we aren’t going to have rolling layoffs for 5 years” part of the bargain.
Signed, veteran of 8 different layoff cycles. I’ve needed to find and maintain an identity of myself outside of work to stay sane through the cycles. No I don’t tell everyone I work with that I’ve got (and show) horses, but hell a 30 year career is a long time and not all of us are going to make it to CEO.
I’ve done large corporate work, and done more niche consulting work that served large corporate clients.
I will say at my first employer, even discussing taking five Fridays off in year one would have created a negative management impression that would have followed me… absolutely. It would NOT have been a professionally savvy move to ask it.
With that said… if I had made a positive first impression, worked extra long hours for the first few months… and then asked for 2 Fridays off? They probably wouldn’t have minded. And then pushed hard and done the same thing a few months later? Same result.
And before you know it? I would have had my 5 Fridays.
Long story short… be smart about how you ask for such things. Don’t come across as an entitled and self important young adult. Do demonstrate first and foremost that you are willing to work HARD. But after you’ve struck the right tone and creates a good first impression… 5 Fridays might be very doable. It just depends on the way the work flows and the nature of the business.
But… the OP is a young adult going into their first job right out of college. YMMV, but when I speak with any number of middle aged people in any number of professional fields lately about what it is like hiring and working with young adults…
I hear over and over about how ENTITLED this young generation comes across.
And I don’t just hear that from friends and family who work in corporate America, as well as the legal and healthcare fields. Nope.
I have heard it from 2 friends who are horse professionals and run great programs that have working student positions. Some of the college aged working students lately have been pretty challenging for my friends to deal with… mostly because they have projected a RIDICULOUSLY entitled and self important attitude at times, and that can just be hard to respond to. And fwiw, my equine professional friends who have commented on this are millennials themselves and in their thirties and have done working student and assistant jobs… and they are still stunned at the attitudes of some of the ‘kids’ who are 10-15 years younger and what these ‘kids’ feel entitled to demand right off the bat.
Anyway, OP sounds like they have it together, and are probably a great young adult. But they should be mindful heading into their first job that there seems to be a very negative societal impression these days (maybe that’s unfair… but that’s what I am hearing) about the work ethic and attitude of much of their generation. Sooooo… try and be savvy and careful when entering the workforce and asking for things.
Be careful about “going above and beyond” in your work. The Company owes you no loyalty and often shows none. Yes, you need to be seen as industrious, efficient, and dedicated as you start. But too many people (including my dad) buy into the myth that if you do extra, your bosses will recognize and promote you. Too often they start expecting the extra work and staying very late without appreciating the sacrifice. Then the company “restructures” or is sold and you are laid off or never promoted (“you are too valuable where you are”) Work hard but keep your balance, limits and soul.
I would not attempt a heavy showing schedule my first year in a job. Things take longer as you establish yourself and learn the jobs. I would try to ride enough to decompress and still feel connected to my horsey world. Like others mentioned, it can just be an appointment you have to those at work until you know the culture. I think my coworkers at one job thought I had a secret child!
Fact: these managers definitely exist. I have worked for them.
Another fact: these managers are a**holes. I don’t work for them anymore.
As you pointed out, five Fridays is 10% of the working weeks in a year. Speaking as someone who currently manages people, that is nothing. If “something major slips, and it comes back on me”, I am doing a terrible job as a manager. Firstly, for not being able to live without an employee (especially a fairly junior one) for five unrelated days a year, and secondly, for not reviewing the work of said junior employee competently.
This is why I recommended above not to mention the horse thing until you know who you are working for. If you ask for five Fridays off to go to a horse show (and, understanding what we all do of horses and their needs, these will not be five Fridays off in a row), it is possible that bad managers will paint you with a brush, as OandO outlined. If you happen to ask for five Fridays off as they come up, and don’t give any additional details, no one needs to know if you are off being a horse girl or if you got invited to a friend’s beach house for the weekend. If it’s approved, take it. If it’s not, file that information away and maybe in the long run you find you don’t work there as long as you otherwise might have. Unless someone has you on Instagram and sees you gushing about how great Dobbin was for the 17th time, they’ll never know (not that you shouldn’t gush about Dobbin - just control access to your social media until you know who you want having details of your personal life).
I’m not commenting on whether or not this is true, but in this case we are discussing whether or not an employee should use their vacation entitlement. Of course they feel entitled to it. It is an entitlement.
…also, not for nothing, but I actually prefer my employees take scattered long weekends instead of a week-long break. It’s much easier to say “oh, I’ll just grab that answer on Monday” than having to wait a week. Of course, I would never let my employees know I have a preference, because it’s their time off and they have earned the right to use it however they choose. Because that is part of their agreed-upon compensation for the work they do every day.
I hear you… but PTO isn’t always that simple. It depends upon the employer and type of business/industry we are talking about. For instance, in many healthcare related workplaces there are minimum staffing requirements and it may be much easier for management to deal with staffing requirements and schedules if everyone takes pre scheduled paid time off in 5 day blocks instead of a day here and a day there. In some logistics and supply chain management type of companies, again, minimum staffing to ensure no production interruptions happen is a thing, and sometimes that means that PTO has to be scheduled pretty far in advance (months), and the employer prefers people to take it as a block, rather than a day here or there.
Another thought… at my DH’s employer, all PTO is scheduled months in advance, except for emergency sick leave. All PTO must be taken in one to two week blocks. Senior employees get first priority when scheduling PTO. Minimum staffing levels are a thing. So a junior employee getting to schedule specific Fridays of their choice off? It’s not going to happen. The junior employee does receive a PTO entitlement… but they aren’t actually entitled to use it whenever they want to. It has to be approved first. DH works for a great employer with great compensation and benefits and generous PTO… but it’s a specific industry, and scheduling smooth operations is an industry imperative.
For some people, including myself, I work to have money to horse. This whole the employee can’t take PTO thing is why I have left jobs.
I once put in for a horse show 8 months out. Then a coworker in the same division put in for the same weekend off to do something with his kids. My day off was revoked because I “was just doing something for myself” I filed a complained, got my day off, had my manager scream obscenities’ at me for several minutes, then switched loctions.
My previous job switched our schedules so I would basically NEVER be off on a weekend ever again. I also worked every single major holiday for a decade or more. When they effectively ended my ability to horse show I retired.
My current job hired me then denied every single PTO day for a year. They couldn’t afford to give me time off due to work load. I worked a year straight with no PTO. I switched managers to get PTO time.
I am loyal, I am at work on time every day, I work hard, I usually don’t even take all my PTO a year anyway. But I work to have money to horse and I make decisions based on that. I own a farm and 6 horses and can horse show and lesson reasonably so I must not have made a bad choice.
I follow this thought exactly. I work TO ride my horse and pay his/her bills. When I go into interviews I make this known, but I also know my worth. Im WORTH paying a premium salary because I’ll be the sharpest, most efficient, and respond to emails at 10PM if they give me a time to ride my horse every day and pay me enough to reach my riding goals. If they, the employer, doesn’t want to do that, I know my worth enough I can get it somewhere else. I told my current employer those words, “If you let me ride my horse every day, I’ll be whatever the firm asks me to be.”
I’ve used this “thought” process in school, college, most of life.
Now underneath my skin, was I actually the best accountant? Probably not at 22, but I sure faked it until I made it. No one questioned it. Maybe I’m still faking it until I make it.
To me, now I do work in accounting and there are literally 3 accounting recruiting firms in my city just to place us in jobs, so that helps. But positioning yourself as a premium service lets you ask for a bit more. I’m not going into an interview BEGGING for a job, taking the bare minimum. I’m going to position and approach a boardroom, meeting, and interview with the expectation that I’m going to get what I ask for. And in those instances, I’m not told no often.
Maybe that’s entitlement, but at the end of the day I’m going to watch out for myself and do what I need to do to reach my riding goals… and I’d love to see the same confidence among young horse people to make higher demands for themselves.
Wow… hearing about these jobs and PTO rules makes me feel happy I don’t work in a place like that.
I am a manager and know that jobs need to get done but our company is also employee focused. I’m quite flexible with approving PTO, things come up and people have lives outside of the job. I don’t even ask what they are doing, but they usually volunteer the info whether it be a volleyball tournament, vacation, getting car work done.
Five Fridays off a year is a small ask, especially if PTO is used. That would be a big red flag to not work there if I worried about asking for time off from the get go. These places sound like slave labor.
Exactly. 5 Fridays off in a year is a big ask? Watch me submit my resume somewhere else. Now, I am pretty flexible and typically I will work half days on a Friday because I normally just need the afternoon off.
Still reading through things, but thank you for this! I’m terrible about doing things “later”. Looking at it from the short time perspective I think will help keep up on more of the little stuff.
When I was starting my career, I saw my life path have a fork - pursue better paying, more prestigious, higher pressure positions - and throw myself on the sword of my career… but have a “great” career.
OR
Pursue the less prestigious job title, and never put career above family and horses.
I chose the 2nd. Has it cost me? YES - lost salary and raises, which adds up significantly. Less prestige in my career - yep, without a doubt. Would I change my decision - absolutely not. I have what I need - I have lived my life with my priorities set in the way that work for me.
Bottom line - chose your path. There are “costs” in every path. Just pick what you can live with and remain emotionally and physically healthy and financially stable. Not everyone survives the corporate (or academic) world or retires happy and healthy. If you don’t like the expectations and culture at your current position and how it affects the rest of your life, get some experience and then change it.
I think the takeaway here OP, is to have a well articulated response for a situation like this or perhaps offer something like to meet over lunch if staying late doesn’t work for you. I have always been an early start/early leave. I don’t think I have ever worked past 4:30 while in the office. I also work for a company that values and supports mentorship as part of employee development (for both mentor and mentee) and I think a lot of younger employees have these expectations as well. I have had a formal mentor now for years, he is in the UK and I’m in the US and we meet monthly during work hours. So again, I think something like this is going to go back to company culture.
Editing to add, the quote was relevant to me being in the corporate world since 2006. Some places…ugh.
It’s worth noting that OP is starting off her career remote, and I think that makes things harder with not having true face time and seeing people in the office IF there is a brick and mortar that employees still work out of. There is still a lot of ground to cover bridging the gap that many still think remote workers are doing other things or taking off early or whatever is driving MANY companies to still be pretty strict on RTO mandates.
OP I would suggest laying a little low for your first year or so and doing what you can to network and help to establish your value. It may be a little harder depending whether ALL employees are remote or just some roles. An all remote population probably wouldn’t be a bad. Either way though, once you establish a solid foundation set for yourself in terms of reliability/responsibility/quality work product, that will a long way.
This thread is full of fantastic career advice! If nothing else, it shows that there are massive differences in work environments, and you won’t know where you are on that spectrum until you are working there. And, the environment may differ based on manager and business unit, within a company.
Great discussion!
I’ll add that I work at a university now. In my group, we can WFH once a week, but not on Friday. I’m fine with that, since I’ve found that the best day for traffic on my commute is Friday, since right, everyone in Phoenix appears to be WFH then. I’m confident that the entire building is empty on Friday, except for us. But that’s the deal from our director, and hey, I’m home in half the normal time on Friday, and way less stressful of a drive!
Some great advice in here. Having lived in the DC area and keeping my horse as close as I could (35-45 minute drive) was theoretically the right move, but I ended up managing the small barn where I kept him, had to trailer out twice a week for lessons and gallops, and spent more time doing barn work than actually riding. If I had kept him somewhere further away but a more complete facility (e.g., I wouldn’t have to set up and remove jumps every time I rode, lessons and gallop on property), I probably would have saved a lot more time in the long run.
For example - it would take me at least 5-6 hours to do a one hour lesson (45 minutes to barn, 30 minutes to hitch up/get horse from paddock/groom/etc., 45 minutes trailer ride, 20 minutes to tack and warm up, 1 hour lesson, vice versa).
