Working off board/horse care - an informal poll

[Ajierene]

I’ve done this when younger and as a working adult and have my share of bad experiences.

So, working out how much it costs to board/lease/care for horse and how much she is getting paid and basically stick to that.

You can write it worth of each task or have an hourly wage, as other have said.

Make everything clear - written somewhere is best. When I was in HS there was a summertime “work to ride” program - 8 hrs of work meant one ride. The owners were shocked when I did 8 hrs of work in one day my first day. The other kids mostly just hung around.

So…to rehash…clarity is the best policy!

When I get upset, the first thing I start doing is the math. As a working adult, I also help people with training their horses/giving lessons. For that, I charged $30/ride. Where I boarded my horse, I fed some of the horses and rode at least one horse, almost every day.

I knew how much the owner charged for board and I would do the math - eventually that was one of my issues. I was getting way underpaid between 1.5 hrs at least 6 days a week feeding, then one ride at least 6 days a week…$10/hr for that 1.5 hrs is about $360/month and the rides were about $720 So that’s $1060/month. Basic full board at the place was about $30/day, or $900/month and my horse was field board. Even training board was $40/day, or about $1200/month and my horse wasn’t in training. Even if you added in my occasional (4 times a year or so) use of the trailer, I still didn’t feel like I came out even - add that to conflicting personalities and it was time to go.

This situation started out with less work and I paid some money in board but as it progressed to more work and I wasn’t paying board, that’s where the line started to get fuzzy. So don’t make that mistake - be cognizant.

I work of my board where I am now also, but there is much less grunt work, my horse is on a fancy organic diet, has a stall, and while I do work with the young horses, the entire atmosphere is more relaxed and I have not yet felt the need to do the math.

[CoastalPony]

I spent my childhood and teen years working off board and/or lessons. As an adult, I’ve boarded at a couple of different co-op type places and volunteered managing the barn part time at a therapeutic riding facility. There has been a lot of good, (and when I was a kid that wouldn’t say no to anything horses) a lot of not-so-good. I feel like the not so great stuff ended up happening gradually - my little barn friends and I were at the barn all weekend anyway, so why wouldn’t we clean the tack, ride that extra horse, help the farrier…then the next thing you know it’s an expectation and we’re working all day for ‘experience’ and it’s not fun anymore.

For me, I really like task based pay, along with a set schedule. As an example, at the last co-op I would know I was cleaning stalls Sat mornings, feeding Tues and Thursday evenings, and harrowing the arena Saturday at lunch. In my case, cleaning stalls/the paddocks was 4 hours set rate, the harrowing was good for another hour credit, and the feedings were an hour each. In addition to that, there would be a to do list sent out every couple of months that we were all free to pick and choose from, anything from holding horses on vet days to tidying the flowerbeds to painting jump poles, all with a dollar amount listed, and we were free to choose whether to do those or not.

I really liked that that BO had her accountant send out itemized invoices monthly for board/lesson/etc, then on that same day I’d get a copy of a very similar invoice and an e-transfer of what the BO owed me. That system eliminated the awkward conversations about who owes what or who did what or who’s paying who when. It was all agreed upon ahead of time, and credited or debited monthly.

[widge]

In the “doing the math” department, and this may not apply if you only have one person working for you OP, but I would say make sure there is some fairness in the work-to-reward ratio. At my last barn I would occasionally help out with chores. It “paid” the same whether you did AM chores, PM chores, or night check. Depending on the time of year AM or PM would include stalls, turn out, or bring in. Night check was only ever checking water and hay. I got bent out of shape about having to do 4+ hours of work for the same “pay” amount as someone doing 15 minutes of work.

[trubandloki]

@Texarkana

We do, she’s not an English rider nor does she want to compete. But I recently bought her a pony club manual so she could read about all the billions of things horse people “know.”

Pony club now has lots of tracks you can take.
Including some western.

[axl]

The difficult thing to judge here is: an inexperienced person will take longer to complete anything. Even when you are very well-experienced, people have different talents. I (or used to, lol) take a long time to clean stalls. My ponies were on sawdust. Shavings are harder, straw I could never do.

If the main goal, which it almost seems like, it to train up a willing and trustworthy young person, I would still abide by the set hours, but maybe give less credit towards board until they become faster/more skilled.

[Annie10]

Paying by the hour increases slower work, more phone checking etc if one is inclined to work that way.
I would take a page from the auto shop play book. They have a set amount of time that a particular repair should take and that’s the amout of labor hours they bill for. You could figure out a reasonable amount of time per job, without breaking land speed records, and set the compensation that way. If it takes a little longer in the beginning, and it probably will, that’s ok. It will encourage her to become more competent and efficient at the various tasks. And as she does so the rewards will improve.

[outside_leg]

When I was a teenager and into my early twenties, I worked for several barns I boarded at. It was always a paid position, and then I used the money to pay my board.

Now that I own my own farm, my insurance company stressed that if we ever had boarders who wanted to work off board, we should absolutely have them as paid employees and let them pay their board from that wage. They were adamant that we not trade services for board or lessons or the like, and that doing so could open us up to several liability issues. So if you haven’t checked with your insurance agent, you may want to do so.

[FjordBCRF]

@Texarkana

She just doesn’t “get it.” Mom, who is a good friend of mine, is kind of a kept woman these days if you know what I mean.

@Texarkana

Mom really wants this for her. But also, I can totally see mom being the wishy-washy one in the party… “oh, it’s hot out…you don’t need to do that today.”

Are you willing to lose a friendship if things go south? I would think hard about that one. It’s easy to take on something like this with someone you aren’t as close to and if things don’t go as planned, it’s easy to walk away and start over. This sounds like it has the potential for the daughter to be between her mom and you her boss especially if mom says something completely contrary to you.

[Displaced_Yankee]

I’ll add another possibility: I pay the cost of “what my horse eats” as a “board” check every month. I then have set shifts that are designed for the other overhead and labor of the farm. In my situation we have 14 shifts (AM/PM) a week and 6 horses total (1 is mine). I am responsible for 4 shifts a week.

We calculate what my horse eats as 1/2 bale/day + his weighed feed costs. BO also provides beet pulp daily, feed through fly control in the summer and dewormer 2x a year. So we tack on a little extra ($10 monthly?) to offset that. I am billed by my vet and farrier directly. Pony lives with a run in shed and in only during the worst weather so no accounting for shavings…but if he is in for a winter storm or hurricane I usually buy a few extra bags of bedding to add back to the inventory.

It will be a good lesson (to kid and mom) that horses take time and at least some money. It puts some “skin in the game” for them. It also means that if they can’t handle all the work shifts or something comes up…you aren’t out actual cash by feeding their horse.

[Texarkana]

@FjordBCRF

@Texarkana

She just doesn’t “get it.” Mom, who is a good friend of mine, is kind of a kept woman these days if you know what I mean.

@Texarkana

Mom really wants this for her. But also, I can totally see mom being the wishy-washy one in the party… “oh, it’s hot out…you don’t need to do that today.”

Are you willing to lose a friendship if things go south? I would think hard about that one. It’s easy to take on something like this with someone you aren’t as close to and if things don’t go as planned, it’s easy to walk away and start over. This sounds like it has the potential for the daughter to be between her mom and you her boss especially if mom says something completely contrary to you.

It’s a valid concern. I don’t think our friendship will necessarily be at risk but I do worry about the husband/dad. Not for any reason in particular, but I feel like he’s the parent who would be more likely to get his proverbial panties in a wad. He’s supportive, but he’s protective of his girls.

[Mcl1]

@outside_leg

It was always a paid position, and then I used the money to pay my board

Same here, always got paid and paid board separately. The only time I “worked off” anything were extra things that came up (for example, I would feed for a day or two to pay off my trainer body clipping or braiding). I think this is a much cleaner way to go because it sets the expectation that they need to pay a set fee every month. Otherwise, it could get messy if they miss a few days and come up short. Or, maybe you go on vacation and they end up working more.

I also always had a set schedule. It sounds like this is really important in your case if the mother is a bit non-committal.

[Texarkana]

@Displaced_Yankee

I’ll add another possibility: I pay the cost of “what my horse eats” as a “board” check every month.

Yes, that is definitely one of my visions. I have been in similar situations and think it’s a good compromise.

The only thing I want to avoid is something like the them being like, “we found $10 all stock feed and $4 (moldy) hay bales! Why can’t we just feed that instead of what you’re charging us?”

They respect my knowledge and I’m sure we could work up verbiage in the contract that I oversee feeding decisions. But ya know, horses are expensive and sometimes new people act weird when they see those bills come in no matter how much you try to prepare them in advance!

[Texarkana]

@outside_leg

Now that I own my own farm, my insurance company stressed that if we ever had boarders who wanted to work off board, we should absolutely have them as paid employees and let them pay their board from that wage. They were adamant that we not trade services for board or lessons or the like, and that doing so could open us up to several liability issues. So if you haven’t checked with your insurance agent, you may want to do so.

This actually came up with your insurance? Do you have a very specific ag business type policy?

[Texarkana]

@Annie10

Paying by the hour increases slower work, more phone checking etc if one is inclined to work that way.
I would take a page from the auto shop play book. They have a set amount of time that a particular repair should take and that’s the amout of labor hours they bill for. You could figure out a reasonable amount of time per job, without breaking land speed records, and set the compensation that way. If it takes a little longer in the beginning, and it probably will, that’s ok. It will encourage her to become more competent and efficient at the various tasks. And as she does so the rewards will improve.

I’m of similar mindset.

I’d rather pay by the task, within reason. Then no one on either end feels the compensation is too much/too little— they know the compensation going in.

[Texarkana]

@widge

In the “doing the math” department, and this may not apply if you only have one person working for you OP, but I would say make sure there is some fairness in the work-to-reward ratio. At my last barn I would occasionally help out with chores. It “paid” the same whether you did AM chores, PM chores, or night check. Depending on the time of year AM or PM would include stalls, turn out, or bring in. Night check was only ever checking water and hay. I got bent out of shape about having to do 4+ hours of work for the same “pay” amount as someone doing 15 minutes of work.

Ooooh yeah. Been there!

My personal favorite is when I would be asked to do things in my shift that were clearly never done in a “usual” shift without any extra compensation.

[Simkie]

Are you planning on carrying any sort of workman’s comp coverage? I’m always kinda worried about that with even sporadic help. It doesn’t even matter if you guys have an agreement…if she gets hurt working at your place, her health insurance company can come after you.

[Texarkana]

@CoastalPony

I spent my childhood and teen years working off board and/or lessons. As an adult, I’ve boarded at a couple of different co-op type places and volunteered managing the barn part time at a therapeutic riding facility. There has been a lot of good, (and when I was a kid that wouldn’t say no to anything horses) a lot of not-so-good. I feel like the not so great stuff ended up happening gradually - my little barn friends and I were at the barn all weekend anyway, so why wouldn’t we clean the tack, ride that extra horse, help the farrier…then the next thing you know it’s an expectation and we’re working all day for ‘experience’ and it’s not fun anymore.

For me, I really like task based pay, along with a set schedule. As an example, at the last co-op I would know I was cleaning stalls Sat mornings, feeding Tues and Thursday evenings, and harrowing the arena Saturday at lunch. In my case, cleaning stalls/the paddocks was 4 hours set rate, the harrowing was good for another hour credit, and the feedings were an hour each. In addition to that, there would be a to do list sent out every couple of months that we were all free to pick and choose from, anything from holding horses on vet days to tidying the flowerbeds to painting jump poles, all with a dollar amount listed, and we were free to choose whether to do those or not.

I really liked that that BO had her accountant send out itemized invoices monthly for board/lesson/etc, then on that same day I’d get a copy of a very similar invoice and an e-transfer of what the BO owed me. That system eliminated the awkward conversations about who owes what or who did what or who’s paying who when. It was all agreed upon ahead of time, and credited or debited monthly.

Are we the same person? Ha!

That’s often how it went down for me too.

[Texarkana]

@Simkie

Are you envisioning a training period? It seems like it would be worth less to you if you have to be right there supervising.

Absolutely!

[Texarkana]

@Simkie

Are you planning on carrying any sort of workman’s comp coverage? I’m always kinda worried about that with even sporadic help. It doesn’t even matter if you guys have an agreement…if she gets hurt working at your place, her health insurance company can come after you.

I feel like you know the answer to this question.

[Texarkana]

@Ajierene

So, working out how much it costs to board/lease/care for horse and how much she is getting paid and basically stick to that.

You can write it worth of each task or have an hourly wage, as other have said.

I think this is the best way to go into it.

Flat out hand them a piece of paper with an itemized list of both care costs and the payment per task and work a schedule from that.