Age 17, just when she’s getting ready to leave for college, seems a questionable time to commit to horse ownership.
Mom’s comment was a little “yikes” regarding weather. Would a human not eat for a day if it was raining?
Just curious–how much of value is this to you? Are you doing this mainly to help the girl, or can you genuinely need the help?
Just added up more credits towards lessons or free rides.
I agree about the age being tricky. It’s definitely a crossroads. But that’s why I’m trying to structure this the way I’m trying to structure it, so everyone, including the horse, has a safety net and a way out if necessary.
I’m mainly wanting to do this for my friend’s daughter. It’s something I want to do. I don’t feel obligated or pressured. I see an opportunity to help a quality young person out the way people helped me.
As for whether or not I genuinely need the help: yes and no. No, I don’t need the help on a day in/day out basis. I don’t need an employee. But I can always use a bigger network to help out in a pinch.
My sister had several sandwich shops. A friend of hers from when she was younger got in contact and asked if my sister would give her 17yo daughter a job. She did and the daughter was doing well. A month or two in, her mom called and told my sister they decided to take a trip for a couple of weeks so she wouldn’t be coming in.
Daughter was on the schedule for that evening, and multiple shifts throughout the time they were going to be gone. Friend didn’t seem at all concerned that my sister had to scrabble to get coverage. To her it was just a low paying job that was interfering with their plans. To my sister it was her lively hood.
I’m a teacher and I see a lot of stuff like this.
The term has shifted from “helicopter parent” to “bulldozer parent” or “lawn mower parent.”
Basically, there are a significant number of parents who think their kids come first, no matter what. They will plow through any obstacles to make sure of that. They don’t have any sense of reality for when they are taking it too far.
Like, there’s a right and wrong way to take off from work. I’m not saying you should deny your child a chance to take a summer vacation because they have a job. But teach them the right way to handle a situation like this: have the kid approach the boss well in advance, have the kid get her shifts covered, have the kid accept the consequences if she drops the ball on doing that instead of going momma bear and calling the boss…
Even at the college level, I have students whose parents insist they come to Disneyland for ten days in the middle of term, or back to the Old Country for a month for family occasions. Or skip class to go to the airport to see grandpa off. .
I do think parents sabotage their older kids, usually unconsciously.
I would worry that the mom in this story is going to disrupt her conscientious daughter because the outside focus is threatening her hold over her little baby girl.
This may have already been mentioned, … but what about a barn chore chart?
Have various tasks listed out:
All of which is involved with horse care, owning horses, and setting up expectations.
Then for each task a dollar amount is assigned to it.
I would pay her for her work, then charge her board. That way she also learns the value of money, budgeting, etc.
PS when I worked at a boarding barn (stalls, turn in/out, feed, blanket, etc) I was paid weekly and I paid her monthly for field board for my horse. That way it was cut and dry who owed who what and how much. And it was Even Steven most months.
I think the hive mind is building a consensus,
Absolutely a schedule when she is expected/required to work.
Credit for jobs completed (properly) rather than credit for time spent on the job.
Buy the horse that you will most likely own when she goes to college, so get the one you like.
I think you are offering this teen an incredible opportunity, and I think you are pretty awesome!
It’s a valid concern. She’s a friend and I feel like that’s the saving grace. We’re close enough that I would feel comfortable saying, “you are being overbearing and your daughter needs to do this,” and it wouldn’t ruin the friendship. But you never know until you’re in it.
I’d be a whole lot more nervous about her if we weren’t friends!
This is a good jumping off point (and way more work than I have around my little farm). Mine would have more broad tasks like “feed horses in the AM” and “feed horses in the PM” since everyone lives out 24/7. And then I could add on extra tasks like grooming, pulling manes or clipping, cleaning anything out of the ordinary, etc.
As much as I don’t want to feel like I have to “invoice,” it does sound like it’s the best way to go, especially since I don’t want this to end badly.
I agree, I’m glad I asked!
The hardest part is finding the horse. 
I brought one home in April not sure if she would either be a horse for me or a horse for the girl to ride/lease. The horse is a little greener and on the more sensitive side… plus I really like her… so I’ve kept her for myself. 
That can’t keep happening.
But I’ve had a few “almosts” in the past few months and I’m encouraged this horse is going to appear in the not-so-distant future.
I think you’ve definitely gotten enough replies to cover this, but yes, clear expectations on what task is worth what towards her board total.
The last time I worked off part of my board I paid a set rate for board over several years even though the one shift a week I was supposed to work grew from an hour or two feeding and cleaning a few stalls (1-2 hours max) to the BO leaving me a task list of scrubbing 30+ buckets/raking all the footing off the indoor walls/decobwebbing 15 stalls/babysitting 4 pasture horses who all preferred each others grain over their own/etc., which would take HOURS when added to the feeding/stall cleaning I had originally accepted the arrangement under. Massive scope creep, and I ended up feeling resentful and it made the barn a not happy place for me for a while until I moved somewhere else and paid full board.
BEEN THERE!
I’ve done the arrangement where I’ve been the only worker and I’ve done the arrangement where we had shifts with multiple workers. And in both situations, scope creep was real.
A lot of times I felt like it was self-induced scope creep because I’d do a good job. “Oh wow, the barn looks great! How about tomorrow you get the cobwebs, too? Then clean out the junk stall. And scrub everything. Then it will be perfect!”
Something that used to piss me off in general as a young barn worker (whether working to pay for my horses or working for money):
Some barn owners seemed of the mindset that they were doing me some great favor by allowing me to hang out in the barn or allowing me to earn money. So they would just spring extra work on me without consideration. “Hey Texarkana, I’m going to let you pick the manure out of all the paddocks today when you’re done! We’ve never done it before so it will probably take ALL day. I bet you’re so excited for the money and to be here that long!” Lady, I signed up for an hour of feeding your horses, not 10 hours of manual labor in the blazing heat. Yet I was too young and too much of a people pleaser to advocate for myself.
This was also my problem - and it happened very gradually so it was always like “just one more small thing” but then it grew to like 10 small-mediumish things so I was doing 5 or 6 times the original agreed upon work for the same amount of reduced board and it was wildly unfair to me (although a great deal for the barn owner!).
I almost didn’t say anything at all because honestly, I’ve read enough of your posts to know you will set up the arrangement fairly, but for anyone else reading who works off board - don’t let scope creep ruin your life!
Also I really love your mindset, I have a similar philosophy about paying it forward and would love to help out a hardworking kid if the opportunity ever presented itself.
omg, when I was an adult getting back to riding, the second barn owner/trainer I ever rode for made me feel as if she was doing a favor giving me, a terrible adult rider, any lessons at all on her very okay to questionable horses. One day, I somehow ended up stripping all of her stalls for her–not even for any money off of my lessons–and she had the gall to criticize my work after the fact.
She also left for Germany for a month to visit her daughter and left two boarders in charge of her entire operation, without asking them if this was okay. Like, just told them, “you’re in charge now.” Both of them had full-time jobs, so this was not something they wanted to do.
I think the fact you don’t desperately need the help is a big bonus and means this is more apt to be a mutually beneficial operation.
I have felt this! And I think part of the problem is the perception of the owner - I saw it in previous work to ride/board situations and see it in my current regular job.
Owner has never really worked a hourly wage job and so doesn’t tend to think that way. They also seem to think you should be as invested in the company as they are.
In the work to ride/board, I would get the “but I work so hard and don’t have money” comments and I’m like…um…have you seen your fancy new ( as in brand new, not used) truck and four horse trailer? Oh and that expensive trip you went on recently while I was watching the farm? Yeah…
With my regular job - boss saying they don’t have money this year for new computers even though the current ones are 10 years old, we are 5 versions behind on Microsoft Office and the computers freeze all the time. But what’s in the parking lot? NEW Mercedes “company vehicle”. Guess who gets to drive that…yeah…
This is one of my pet peeves currently, the “do more with less” poor mouthing from folks pulling in a chunk of change.
Yes, my insurance is specific to horse businesses. I should add that the comment about liability issues and wages was mostly as a warning, not part of our coverage currently (we don’t have employees or boarders at the moment, but we do have people coming to try our sales horses, so we still need fairly comprehensive coverage). My insurance agent is a horse person, the agency covers almost exclusively horse businesses, and they have seen all sorts of litigation and liability issues over the years. So our conversation included various ways to protect yourself, like having all workers be employees or contractors with actual paperwork involved and not just word of mouth agreements that can get messy and litigious should the relationship sour.
Think that you need to do two things before putting too much into this. And leasing is the smartest way to go here, no question.
Have a sit down with Mom, DD and a calculator. How much is that horse going to cost each month to lease? What are your costs to board that horse? What is your time worth per lesson? Do that math with them. Then figure out how many hours she will commit to working each week and be sure they understand it is a commitment not wishful thinking. Then you figure out how much is fair. IME it works best to track the hours or tasks then balance that total against the monthly horse costs.
Ask that kid how much of the Pony Club manual she has read? Start quizzing her on basic knowledge. I know what she and her Mom say but…teens at that age with doting parents often are clueless how much work is involved for not so much credit and reliability is not a suggestion.
Some of what you have shared is concerning and you are too close to mom as a friend, maybe, to pick up on some nuances in what mom says and how she says it. And then there is Dad, who you have some doubts about from what you have told us.
Plus that, people looking to work off board and lessons often seriously underestimate the amount of money it actually costs and the time involved. Then overestimate how much credit they can earn against that working part time…or even full time.
Great to offer this kid some help but be realistic and, sorry, but if you are doing this partly to get a farm sitter? Does not sound like the best candidate. Not right now anyway.
Last time I worked off expenses I clocked in and out, credit was $10 an hour. Usually put in 8-10 hours a week. Realized it really did not make sense spending days off the regular job doing barn work to credit a few hundred towards almost 1k+ of expenses and that was before costs really skyrocketed. Did continue to work at in barn shows and was cut a check for that time.
Do not forget vet and farrier come on top of that. You can tell that to people but they either do not listen of file it in the dust bin of unimportant trivia. Until they get a middle of the night colic bill.
On the insurance side of things, I’m not sure…where I keep my horse now is my friend’s “backyard” but they have an active Ag business. The horses are not necessarily part of the main business but as I understand it, their feed/care are considered write offs.
One of the reasons my friend likes me there is the work to board relationship - if I were paying board, that would fall into the insurance considerations but since no money changes hands, it doesn’t.
I don’t know all the particulars but her husband is a contract lawyer working with huge employers like DuPont so I feel like he knows what he’s talking about.
Now…they wanted to move back to the old farm for two years in order to sell without incurring taxes for selling a home they hadn’t lived in. Turns out insurance wouldn’t allow them to do any short term rentals on the new place because of the farm animals. The trailer house they rent out is fine because it’s technically on a different address (and about 100ft from the main house).
Insurance is weird and everyone’s risk tolerance is different as well.
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