Working Trot and Tracking Up?

[skydy]

[QUOTE=Abbie.S;7664322]
Tracking up is kind of a misnomer. If all else is well and correct with the way the horse is going, than tracking up happens as a by product of this. It is not something you train for or even directly try to manipulate out of the horse.

That said, plenty of horses “track up” and don’t move correctly. It is not the individual components that matter so much as the summation.

Also, think about this: if the horse is moving straight, and then “overtracks”, would he not hit or clip himself? That’s certainly not desirable, or safe.[/QUOTE]

No, he would not “hit or clip himself”.

[Hippolyta]

Why so much hostility here?

[skydy]

[QUOTE=Abbie.S;7664811]
Huntin’, no need for snark or having a meltdown. I have plenty of resources, thanks.

And alicen, I am aware of what “tracking up” means.

Perhaps I was not clear (indeed, I wasn’t, but that’s what you get for giving a quick answer on a phone): the OP asked what was “OK” in terms of horse’s tracking up or not for a given level she watched. Based on this, she seems to imply or understand that all horses either move in the same way or that being ridden at 1st level somehow means that they should all look the same or similar. Indeed, this is not the case. Some horses naturally track up, some do not. The point was, you cannot FORCE or TRAIN this: the horse either has the natural propensity to do it or he does not. You then bring in all of the possible training problems, rider errors, etc that could cause the energy from the horse’s hind end to be blocked, in which case even if the horse COULD track up, he would not be able to.

You can then move on to the horse’s conformation, pelvis angle, leg length in comparison to body length, and see how greatly that can affect the horse’s ability to track up. That doesn’t even get into conditioning and flexibility and elasticity of joints and muscles.

The reason I say tracking up is a bit of a misnomer is because of the OP’s implied understanding that horses of a certain level of training should or should not be doing it. This is the misnomer, my apologies for the lack of clarity.[/QUOTE]

I don’t understand how you can possibly believe that horses either “have the propensity to track up or they don’t” and that they “CAN’T BE TRAINED” to do so, however in the same paragraph you state that a rider can block a horse from tracking up.

It stands to reason, that if a rider can inhibit a horse from tracking up, than a rider can also encourage the movement.

The rider can only influence tracking up in a negative manner and never a positive one? That is nonsense.

BTW You may want to look up the definition of misnomer. It makes no sense in the context that you use it. :yes:

[alicen]

[QUOTE=Hippolyta;7839382]
Why so much hostility here?[/QUOTE]

This is the dressage forum. One of the basic premises of effective dressage training is that it improves the athletic ability of the horse. For any rider who has invested the physical and emotional time to achieve such progress with a less than talented horse, for any rider who has witnessed a formeraly short strided horse track-up or lengthen its stride at liberty in a pasture because of the correct training and the efforts of its rider, a statement like this- “The point was, you cannot FORCE or TRAIN this: the horse either has the natural propensity to do it or he does not.” - is going to garner comments of poppycock!

[netg]

[QUOTE=alicen;7839481]
This is the dressage forum. One of the basic premises of effective dressage training is that it improves the athletic ability of the horse. For any rider who has invested the physical and emotional time to achieve such progress with a less than talented horse, for any rider who has witnessed a formally short strided horse track-up or lengthen its stride at liberty in a pasture because of the correct training and the efforts of its rider, a statement like this- “The point was, you cannot FORCE or TRAIN this: the horse either has the natural propensity to do it or he does not.” - is going to garner comments of poppycock![/QUOTE]

Excellent answer.

I admit I didn’t expect a serious answer, and thought it was going to be more to the effect of “This is the dressage forum. Hostility is what we do.”

[LarkspurCO]

[QUOTE=netg;7839644]
Excellent answer.

I admit I didn’t expect a serious answer, and thought it was going to be more to the effect of “This is the dressage forum. Hostility is what we do.”[/QUOTE]

:lol:

[arlosmine]

Tracking up is part of the directives for a working trot.
There are other elements to be judged for the total score, so of course a trot that tracks short, but has other good qualities can score pretty well, but one that has all those good qualities PLUS tracks up will score better.

I don’t understand the earlier statement that tracking up would cause a horse to clip themselves. That’s what a period of suspension is for

It’s pretty easy to shut a horse down enough to cause them to cease tracking up. Even if it’s easy for them to do so. It’s also possible to train a horse well enough to track up correctly, even if it’s challenging for them due to genetics. I have known a few VERY long backed horses who found it challenging to track up, even when relaxed, forward and swinging. They got good scores because of the other correctly shown qualities…but would have gotten better ones had they tracked up as well. As they went up the levels and further developed, the scores got even better because they got stronger.

Dressage is about training, and horses are plastic.

[Equibrit]

[URL=“http://scholars.opb.msu.edu/pubDetail.asp?t=pm&id=28439915&”]http://scholars.opb.msu.edu/pubDetail.asp?t=pm&id=28439915&

“Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain - and most fools do.”
Benjamin Franklin

[merrygoround]

While some horses track up easily, others need a careful ride to reach their full potential. The rider’s use of their body can make a significant difference i the horse’s stride, as does the amount of forward energy.

Horse’s that “clip” themselves are either being slowed in front by the rider’s hand or are not being ridden sufficiently forward, or both.

[Gloria]

If your horses clip, there are basically two reasons:

1. Your horses’ feet are out of balance. You need to get a new trimmer/farrier.
2. You force the horse onto the forehand. You need to learn how to ride better.

[Big_Grey_hunter]

[QUOTE=Gloria;7840402]
If your horses clip, there are basically two reasons:

1. Your horses’ feet are out of balance. You need to get a new trimmer/farrier.

2. You force the horse onto the forehand. You need to learn how to ride better.[/QUOTE]

3. Your horse is young and still learning to use himself

4. You are starting to ask for more difficult work and your horse is still building muscles for the harder work

5. Multiple other reasons

[alicen]

[QUOTE=netg;7839644]
I admit I didn’t expect a serious answer, and thought it was going to be more to the effect of “This is the dressage forum. Hostility is what we do.”[/QUOTE]

I’m not always that sarcastic!

[Gloria]

[QUOTE=Big_Grey_hunter;7840406]
3. Your horse is young and still learning to use himself
4. You are starting to ask for more difficult work and your horse is still building muscles for the harder work
5. Multiple other reasons[/QUOTE]

Definitely. Though, I myself will lump number 3 and 4 into number 2. Both issues are caused by the horses on the forehand, and can be resolved by tactful riding - hence, learning to ride better.

[Valentina_32926]

Working trot they should track up, lengthened/Extended trot they should over track.

My old Appy mare was LOOOOONG backed and short legged - she could track up but not over track - even if her life had depended upon it! :lol:

[Valentina_32926]

[QUOTE=Big_Grey_hunter;7840406]
3. Your horse is young and still learning to use himself
4. You are starting to ask for more difficult work and your horse is still building muscles for the harder work
5. Multiple other reasons[/QUOTE]

One of the reasons (#5) is loss of balance - maybe fixed by #1 or rider needs to do more (effective) half-halts.

[LarkspurCO]

[QUOTE=Big_Grey_hunter;7840406]
3. Your horse is young and still learning to use himself
4. You are starting to ask for more difficult work and your horse is still building muscles for the harder work
5. Multiple other reasons[/QUOTE]

6. They’re screwing around in the pasture.

[chisamba]

[QUOTE=Tnavas;7664852]
Yes in working trot if the horse is going actively forward the horse should track up. Unfortunately because people can’t see the tracking up when on board they are often not getting the horse going forward enough in warm up. They think they are going too fast.[/QUOTE]

speed does not equal length of stride.

[chisamba]

[QUOTE=arlosmine;7839780]
Tracking up is part of the directives for a working trot.
There are other elements to be judged for the total score, so of course a trot that tracks short, but has other good qualities can score pretty well, but one that has all those good qualities PLUS tracks up will score better.

I don’t understand the earlier statement that tracking up would cause a horse to clip themselves. That’s what a period of suspension is for

It’s pretty easy to shut a horse down enough to cause them to cease tracking up. Even if it’s easy for them to do so. It’s also possible to train a horse well enough to track up correctly, even if it’s challenging for them due to genetics. I have known a few VERY long backed horses who found it challenging to track up, even when relaxed, forward and swinging. They got good scores because of the other correctly shown qualities…but would have gotten better ones had they tracked up as well. As they went up the levels and further developed, the scores got even better because they got stronger.

Dressage is about training, and horses are plastic.[/QUOTE]

not it is not: read DR 104 working trot: not a word about tracking up, https://www.usef.org/documents/ruleBook/2014/08-DR.pdf

tracking up is not a directive , although engagement of the hind end is.

[merrygoround]

Here you go folks, quit arguing and read.

[QUOTE=ideayoda;7665301]
In a working trot horses should swing freely forward and hence they should track up. Lengthening is about covering more ground which comes from slightly more thrust and be perhaps a smidge longer in the stride. If the horse is not tracking most of the time it is likely because the horses are too low or too closed and hence cannot reach with the shoulders. The hind legs end up just pushing the load rather than folding the hind leg joints and lifting and placing the hind legs.

The definitions of the gaits are in https://www.usef.org/documents/ruleBook/2014/08-DR.pdf[/QU

[arlosmine]

Thank you, vicarious! I was scribing at a recognized show last month and the judge (an older lady who has been judging for probably thirty years) remarked several times on horses not tracking up, and had me make note of this as a comment for a score lower than a “6”… And she mentioned that tracking up was an important component of a “working trot”. So: possibly it used to be, and the verbiage has changed?,or are the judges in the “L” programs being directed differently than they used to be regarding this?

Any judges want to shed light in this?