I hope you realize you’re doing the same thing here as you did there. You didn’t get the answer you wanted, so now it’s everyone else’s fault.
I bet you and your friend were surprised when she asked to be paid. People always seem to be surprised when a horse professional asks to be paid. I’m not sure why. This is their business.
Hi,
The reason I’m backing out of this thread is because it got very misconstrued. I got the answers I was looking for and even went back to my friend that was there and told her I understood the payment request wasn’t out of the norm. It was the comments like, “you sound like a bad client” and that I should find a backyard trainer that made me feel like dirt. Ever comment I made was to make a clarification. But, there is no arguing on the internet, so its best for me to delete and move on. Hope you can appreciate that.
It didn’t get misconstrued. We are all puzzled by the fact that you think the trainer should not have moved on with her day. Really? Trainer has policy and you not knowing it graciously paid it. But then complain the trainer moved on with the work she had to do. What did you want the trainer to do in that hour? Sit there?
She offered a make up time so your money would t be wasted. YOU declined. So you opted to pay without a lesson. That’s on you.
For whatever it’s worth, I showed up for a jump lesson this fall to find my horse lame. The coach watched him trot for a few minutes and then helped me hoof test him. She probably spent 10-15 min of my 30-min lesson with us. When I received my invoice at the end of the month, there was no charge for that date. I was thankful!
I really don’t think there’s a universal standard here and that cancellation policies should be spelled out in advance, as in any other business, if they’re going to be enforced. No one I’ve ever ridden with regularly has ever told me what their cancellation policy is but I’m pretty sure most won’t charge for the occasional last-minute cancellation because shit happens in life and with horses. Sometimes trainers have to cancel too and I think it behooves everyone to be understanding. Now if it’s a frequent thing, that’s another problem.
That said, I would chalk it up as a lesson learned and would probably give the trainer another chance since she offered a make-up date. You may find there are benefits of her valuing her time appropriately and trying to keep to a schedule.
Hope your horse feels better soon, OP!
If I am reading the OP’s comments correctly in post #8, it sounds like the instructor may have added a bill-per-ride training hour to that spot in place of the OP’s lesson, not just moved on to regular work with clients’ horses. If that is the case, it could be viewed as similar to “filling” the lesson spot. If the instructor had been able to give a lesson to a different paying lesson student in that hour at the last minute, I don’t think it is that common to expect both students to pay, even if it is fully the instructor’s prerogative to request payment from both. Often, 24-hour cancellation policies have “unless the spot can be filled” clauses as well.
Assuming I’m interpreting OP’s comments correctly, I think the details in post #8 provide a legitimate question whether “filled” can mean by per-hour training ride that was not originally scheduled for that time/day instead of another lesson student. I’d expect no, because training rides, even billed per hour, have different requirements on the trainer, fee structures, and timing, so I would not consider this equivalent to filling the lesson spot, even if it seems comparable on the surface.
Sure, the trainer rode a training horse so she didn’t have to twiddle her thumbs. In that case, she simply moved the day’s schedule around. That still doesn’t equate filling the hour of the missed lesson.
She’d be riding the training horse anyway, just an hour later.
this exact scenario has played out with me when there has been a no show.
The scenario in my post is when she would not necessarily be riding the horse on that day under normal circumstances. That’s what I meant by “added a bill-per-hour training ride” Different from simply rearranging the list of rides she already has lined up for the day.
Totally hypothetical, as I have no idea what actually happened at this barn, but possible at places where the trainer does have horses with training rides booked on a per-ride basis, not as part of a partial or full training package. Example scenario: Owner of horse is present at barn when lesson has to be cancelled. Trainer suggests to owner (or vice versa) “Hey, since this hour is free, how about a training ride on horse?” A la carte training ride fees change hand, witnessed by OP. This is not an unheard of kind of trainer-owner relationship.
Actually, I have never heard of this. It’s a pretty big stretch IMO, but agree we don’t actually know the details, nor does the OP.
I have, but infrequently enough that it didn’t even cross my mind for OP’s situation.
Honestly, either way, yes, I’d still expect to pay for a last minute cancellation. Haphazardly throwing in an a-la-carte ride on a horse doesn’t change the fact that the trainer’s day/schedule was disrupted due to no fault of their own. I’ve never heard of a 24-hour cancellation policy with an “unless I fill it with someone else clause.” I mean, a doctor’s office that charges $50 for a cancellation less than 24-hours out doesn’t waive the fee or refund you if they fill the appointment with someone else. Why should a horse trainer? As someone said above, I just don’t understand why people think horse professionals should operate any differently than any other industry professional.
Sure, many trainers will waive the cancellation fee for a one-off and really only enforce it for habitual cancelers, but they aren’t required to.
Darn, I hate it when people remove all of their posts.
@eventerlaura88 , I agree with the poster that said you removing everything is a very similar response to what you had with this instructor. “How dare they not see it my way.”
We have all learned new stuff along the way. Most people can look back and think 'I wish I knew this information when I did that".
Your thread, with all of the information, could have been a helpful thing for others. Now there are big holes because you went thru and removed everything.
It always amazes me that people expect not to be charged for missed lessons. Does this happen in any other activity? If my child is sick and misses her ballet lesson I don’t expect a refund for that class.
Most trainers / coaches will offer make up lessons for the occasional one cancelled with advance notice, and that’s fair. But a last-minute cancellation? Definitely something the rider is on the hook for IMO.
When my horse has been off for several days or even weeks, I don’t expect a refund of my training fees. What I do expect and appreciate receiving is that in days I can’t be there, my trainer or her staff will hand walk, lunge, wrap or provide whatever care is needed during the lameness.
At our barn we bring in, tack up and groom our own horses for our lessons - staff prepares the horses whose owners aren’t there that day for the trainer. So if I cancel my lesson at the last minute my horse might not get ridden that day. Trainer will not have budgeted the extra time in the day’s schedule for bringing in, grooming, tacking/untacking and cooling out my horse. She and her staff should not be expected to work extra hours simply because I cancelled with no notice.
My trainer doesn’t charge me for missing a lesson. However, I’ve been taking lessons with her for nearly 8 years. My trainer is also a very close friend. If I can’t make it for some reason I usually just have her put a training ride on.
I’ve had to cancel maybe twice since I’ve known her when it was something related to my horse. Like the time I arrived at the barn for my lesson and found my horse having a severe allergic reaction, covered in hives and running a fever.
The fact that she offered to let you use the payment for a future lesson is nice of her. Having heard about some of my trainer’s other clients, trainers have to have these kind of policies because most people can be incredibly flaky and inconsiderate.
Good for the trainer for standing up for herself. Far too many women in the horse/business world allow themselves to give their time away for nothing at someone else’s convenience.
If you bought a theatre ticket and didn’t show up, you’d be out that money.
If you bought a seat on a train and didn’t show up, you’d be out that money.
If you bought a spot in a clinic and didn’t show up, you’d be out that money.
The theatre, the train, the clinic, and the instructor don’t have any obligation to wait for you. It was very kind of the instructor to offer you an alternative arrangement. If you can’t see that and are still butt hurt about it, then the poster who said something like it’s better to move on because you sound like a sub-optimal client is right.
I always have "something " to do with my time. If a student cancels, last minute, I move something else into that slot. Am I supposed to go into the tack room or office and take a nap?
Some people are sooo unrealistic. :no:
Any professional in the horse world can expect to be vilified if they don’t give things away to be nice. If the BO/BM expects to be paid extra for wound care, handling an after hours vet call, taking time to do an emergency repair on a blanket, I could go on with a million examples, then they’re just in it for the money and not the horse. If a trainer expects to be paid for a lesson that was booked and then cancelled last minute for any reason then they’re being mean. Far too many clients in the horse world seem to think it is necessary for those working with their horse to give away time and knowledge because if you don’t you are perceived as not going above and beyond. And in the horse world if you aren’t considered to be going above and beyond then you’re a step away from awful.
I don’t see why she should be charged for a lesson she didn’t get ? She was there and on time, but at no fault of hers the horse was lame.
Being a no show is one thing, but lameness is another.
But it wasn’t the fault of the instructor, either. That’s kind of the point. It’s not about whose fault it was.
Stuff happens. Life marches on and sometimes not in the direction we were intending, but at the end of the day if you appreciate someone and their work and you have a good relationship with them and want to continue to foster that, you do the moral thing and you pay them for their time. It’s called “good faith”, and it goes a long way.
If the instructor were providing the horse, then I agree with you. But the OP was responsible for providing the horse for the lesson. The instructor was more than reasonable in agreeing to provide a lesson at another time.
I’d just add that OP thought the horse was off the day before, assessed horse to be sound on lunge and then trailered to lesson the next day.
Please see my addition to the paraphrase of the OP; she suspected the horse was off and went to the lesson anyway. The trainer reserved that timeslot for a lesson with the OP.
You rolls the dice, you takes your chances. Check out the numerous threads about horses coming up lame the day before a show; mucho dinero lost.
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