And don’t get me wrong, I’m not criticizing Charlie’s photos or his choice of showing the falls! They were great photos and I think just show the action that the sport entails. Did you catch the one on the last page of Will and Brad looking as though they were going down and there was no hope? Will did an amazing job to keep his horse on his feet and stay on. I har that the vaulters and Ringling Brothers are trying to get hold of him!
My frank opinion is that when the best riders in the world crash and burn, it’s a course design problem, plain and simple. Like Jersey Fresh two years ago.
And I both do and don’t blame it on the new format. I DO because I think there IS a relationship there, but I DON’T because I think the main problem is lack of originality and creativity and fresh blood in x-c course designing.
For example, why are almost all (or literally ALL) course designers MEN? Where do they come from? I’d like to see what kind of ideas the likes of Karen or Kim or Amy or Jan would have, if they had the time to think about it. And I wonder what would come out of a brainstorming session. What if the guys have simply run out of ideas, and so fall back on skinnies and corners and tricky striding instead? What ever happened to the TERRAIN, for example? I must admit that many of the upper level courses I’ve seen recently simply haven’t used the terrain as a factor as much as I remember courses doing way-back-when.
We got frightened away from bounces, the tiger trap/shark’s tooth fell by the wayside, helsinkis have disappeared…and the drops just getting bigger and bigger, the lines tighter and tighter, the narrows more narrow, and the complexes more complex.
Hey, if YOU could design any fence or complex on any terrain any where (in the course and/or in the countryside), what would YOU design? What question would be asked and why.
[I wonder if I post that as a separate thread if it would get any thoughts going.]
Do they use ha-has in XC in eventing? Steep bank down with a vertical at the bottom, landing on a steep bank going up. Banks are at least ten feet on either side. No flat takeoff or landing at the bottom, so you have to take off from an incline and land on an incline. Where you choose to take off will either increase the height of the vertical or increase the width of the effort.
For example, why are almost all (or literally ALL) course designers MEN?
Torrance is a course designer.
“Old style” Trakehners were like that.
But it was determined that landing on a steep uphill slope was very hard on the horse’s legs, and they are no longer used.
[QUOTE=pwynnnorman;1849532]
For example, why are almost all (or literally ALL) course designers MEN? [/QUOTE]
Sue Benson is the course designer for the 2007 Pan Ams, as well as Bramham***. I think she’s done Boekelo *** too.
All right, all but two…:yes:
[QUOTE=pwynnnorman;1849532]
My frank opinion is that when the best riders in the world crash and burn, it’s a course design problem, plain and simple. Like Jersey Fresh two years ago.
And I both do and don’t blame it on the new format. I DO because I think there IS a relationship there, but I DON’T because I think the main problem is lack of originality and creativity and fresh blood in x-c course designing.
For example, why are almost all (or literally ALL) course designers MEN? Where do they come from? I’d like to see what kind of ideas the likes of Karen or Kim or Amy or Jan would have, if they had the time to think about it. And I wonder what would come out of a brainstorming session. What if the guys have simply run out of ideas, and so fall back on skinnies and corners and tricky striding instead? What ever happened to the TERRAIN, for example? I must admit that many of the upper level courses I’ve seen recently simply haven’t used the terrain as a factor as much as I remember courses doing way-back-when.
We got frightened away from bounces, the tiger trap/shark’s tooth fell by the wayside, helsinkis have disappeared…and the drops just getting bigger and bigger, the lines tighter and tighter, the narrows more narrow, and the complexes more complex.
Hey, if YOU could design any fence or complex on any terrain any where (in the course and/or in the countryside), what would YOU design? What question would be asked and why.
[I wonder if I post that as a separate thread if it would get any thoughts going.][/QUOTE]
Don’t know if you are also referring to the WEG in crash and burn statistics, but the best riders in the world didn’t crash and burn, they ahd simple runouts at difficult fences-Andrew Nicholson, Andrew Hoy, Kim Severson, William Fox-Pitt, Jean Teulere (reigning WOrld Champion) and several others just had run bys at either the double brushes, 4 & 5, the arrowhead at the Normandy Bank, #15, the corner at 25 or the last water at 27A. Granted they are the products of the changes in courses but don’t have anything to do with the Olympic format. Those questions, other than the last water, at such an extreme, have been asked for years. And they did use the terrain very well, though it seemed flat, it wasn’t and they created terrain where it was needed. And there still are bounces on courses. Fair Hill always has one or two, with options, usually, Rolex Kentucky has had a bounce into water most years. And several other courses have them. I think many of the other older designs just got tired. I mean the Helsinki really wasn’t much of a fence. When they started building more solid jumps, they started getting into different designs. And why not many women course designers? I’m not sure but maybe some of it has to with, most course designers are or were riders. When women quit riding, they usually have a family to take care of, when men quit, they can let the women take care of the family and go of and design courses! Just a thought!
Expo Du Moulin fall
Does anyone know what happened to Expo Du Moulin? He had a terrible fall at the trakehner and didn’t get up. I’m hoping he was just winded, but no update was given on his condition.
I think Amy is totally underestimated when it comes to her and her horses abilities.
Look here: http://www.cmannphoto.com/2006_WEG/Cross_Country/pages/06WEG09838.htm
Scroll through the pictures, just look at her position before, during and after each jump… text book perfect!
Now look at the other surrounding pictures. They are all over the place.
She made no hoopla over the course in her comments, said it was pretty straight forward and rode it that way.
Maybe thats why she doesnt get as much press as some of the others. She just says it how it is and gets the job done.
Bridlewise, I wasn’t exactly communicating LITERALLY.
Does anyone think that designers are reacting to a previous perception that dressage was becoming “too important”?
It seems at some events there was some criticism that a horse with good dressage had too much of an advantage and that X-C was not playing a role in separating the placements - instead it was dressage scores and SJ rails. I remember people complaining and comparing to the “good old days” of blood and guts on courses when XC was king!:winkgrin:
I would think that some run-outs and refusals would be expected, even among the best. Now crashes are another matter, but it seems there are always some. Was the course thought to be dangerous or unfair by the competitors and coaches?
My feeling,which is based only on the comments from the elder eventers and from results, is that X-C at Rolex and these WEGs has sort of become dressage at the gallop and jump. Or show jumping in groups over natural obstacles with some distance in between the groups.
Doesn’t seem to me that the course designers have figured out how to preserve “old fashioned” X-C in the new format.
Let me first let you all into a little background info of my photo galleries. The main reason I started posting these daily galleries from major events like this was for the magazine editors and art directors to see them so they could choose which images they likes for their magazines. Then I opened it up for general viewing. Remember my images are used by magazines from around the world and some like to see the crash and burns. I am careful not to show any of anybody or any animal getting seriously hurt. So think if this as a sneak preview of what you might see in the magazines well after the competition is over.
Now to the problems at the first water. I was not able to post all the images that showed the problems that I noticed, which was that a lot of people where taking off too early to the bank. Now I found a couple images that are interesting, from my remote camera that did not move the entire time of cross country. It shows Kim Severson walking the course and estimating the landing point after the drop. Then I have her landing after the drop. I combined the 2 images and she is standing exactly where she walked the course earlier that morning.
http://www.cmannphoto.com/2006Walking_Course.htm
The only other rider that I have, not ID’ed yet, is a couple feet further out then Kim when he walked the course and estimated his landing point. I think that some riders over estimated their momentum and landing spot at the drop, which is turn put the too long at their take off for the bank. I am not a rider so this is a layman’s view point.
Almost every good rider, given a ‘question’ to ansxwer X-C, i.e., an obstacle, whether combined or single, will answer that ‘question’ correctly.
The difficulty on course is not so much the questions being asked as the RIDER’s ability to think through a plan and be able to carry it out under the pressure of competition, terrain/weather changes, etc etc.
That is the heart and soul of the sport: the human’s ability to stay the brains of the partnership, the horse willing to trust that good decisions have been and are being made.
No one is perfect all the time, not horse and not rider–and thus we get placings after X-C <g>.
Most of the rider comments seem to be that this was a very good to excellent course, that it tested world-class ability…I have no idea, as walking this kind of course usualyl makes me want to put a paper bag over my head and be grateful for dressage, but it looks like it rides well, on the little bits of it Ive gotten to see.
I was impressed with Severson’s interview on TV on Sunday. When asked about the first run out she said “I didn’t understand the question. It wasn’t his fault.” She obviously wasn’t the only one.
COOL photo cmann! Walking the course and understanding the questions …and then actually riding “right” is what eventing is all about and Kim is clearly one of the best.
