WTF Are We Doing?

[Old_Mac_Donald]

Exactly. Your horses, your rules.

But a student’s goals?

“I am not an eventing instructor. If that is your goal, you might want to look for a different instructor”.

I wanted to event when I was a kid, after watching Gill Rolton at Atlanta. What a ride! Now I just want a quiet horse to pop over a cross rail. Goals change. People change. Kids grow into and out of dreams quickly enough without killjoys putting pins in their dreams.

Who knows, the next crowd of youngsters coming up with Boyd and Tamie and Michael in their ambitions might be those who make eventing a safer sport, a better sport.

[tabula_rashah]

Your dismissal of saddleseat in it’s entirety is interesting. I’m guessing you know exactly zero about it from your statement

[Impractical_Horsewoman]

Also, even for lower-level stuff, I don’t see what the value is of riding on a long, floppy rein (I’m talking beyond the most basic of beginner lessons). If anything, that can be more dangerous (just from a simple steering factor, as well as the horse tripping or getting strung out), as well as make it more difficult to teach the proper basics.

What’s an unfair request has a lot (although not only) to do with the capabilities of the horse. IMHO, I’ve seen some lesson horses get “unfair requests” doing too many walk-trot lessons when they should be retired. Are some jumps unfair requests for all horses–yes, I agree, but where to draw the line is what we’re all debating here, and unless you think all horse sports shouldn’t go beyond Training Level dressage and “inside-outside-diagonal”-type courses in a ring, and no jumping outside a ring, then we’re back to what started this thread–debating where to draw the line. Which is hard with no easy answers.

[Jealoushe]

What I find interesting is the crowd who cry about eventing and how it’s horrible are never crying over the Big Lick horses? Or horses who are starved and hoarded and abused by mentally ill people.

I never see threads started about that. Or posts on social media about it. I would love to see the passion to end eventing be directed at some real abuse like what happens to Big Lick horses.

[Willesdon]

I, too, was just thinking of Big Lick horses and that the legislation to stop it has got no where.

[tabula_rashah]

A little of that might be where your focus is. I own a couple of gaited horses and belong to several gaited groups and I do see a lot of push back on big lick (as well as the idiots who think gaited horses need to be started at 18-20 months )

[Bearx2]

@Bending_Line

I also don’t encourage flat racing, steeplechasing, Saddleseat, Tennessee Walker shows, AQHA Western Pleasure, and multi week hunter shows with no turn out. We actually have had multiple of students go on to upper level eventing, Pan Am games and USEA teams included–not at my place, and not on my horses! I feel 100% entitled to gatekeep what people will do on my lesson horses. What they do on their own horses down the line is on their own conscience

To be fair this poster does actually address many of the disciplines that people listed above.

[Bearx2]

Two of my nastiest fall came when I was just doing this. One was when I was cantering my horse tripped and one when my horse tripped after a cross rail.

[Jealoushe]

It’s mentioned but are they actively involved on social media trying to have dialogue with those who do it as to why it’s bad and should end? I don’t see that. I see that to us eventers though.

[Bending_Line]

I say this as someone who is generally supportive of lower level eventing, and likes the concept of the well rounded horse and riders who can perform in all phases: upper level eventing has lost me. I don’t enjoy watching it anymore. The courses are too trappy, the questions don’t look fair, and the risks to the horse of an innocent mistake are too great. Those of you who are defending upper level eventing need to be aware that on the social license to operate front, you are even losing people WITHIN the horse industry by turning a blind eye to the problems. I won’t knowingly push students in your sport’s direction at those levels. Get better goals. It’s like watching the Triple Crown–thrilling to see horses in action, but heart in your throat whether they will make in unscathed: not worth it.

[Jealoushe]

If you’re fine with lower level Eventing why would you turn riders away who are interested rather than educate them on how to ride safely and make choices as riders?

How are we turning a blind eye when this thread alone has been nearly a decade long conversation about Eventing safety? It’s on the forefront of most people who events mind.

If you think hunter jumper horses aren’t dying too you’re absolutely in the wrong. I would say more H/J horses die at shows in a year than eventers. You just never hear about it because it’s usually back in the stall where they pass and it’s all hush hush. The governing bodies would have the facts.

[Bending_Line]

I have plenty of critiques of the hunter-jumper world and you will find them on this site. I have been doing this a long time and have lots of opinions across a lot of disciplines. A common denominator is that competitive zeal overtakes people’s basic respect and affection for the horse in a lot of instances. People are so determined to prove something to others that they don’t stop to do a gut check about what they are asking of the horse, and why. For those who have mentioned it, I do believe there can be abuses in the lesson barn world, too–and my personal pet peeve, the poor aggrieved 2’6" horse who is doing 35 shows a year on the local circuit so that someone can earn a giant ribbon at a year-end banquet. But upper level eventing to me has become a standout in terms of the deadly consequences for the horse that answers a question wrong. If people think my riders don’t do cross country work or we never leave the ring, they are 100% wrong, btw.

[Bearx2]

I will be honest the refusal of you and others on this thread to take a step back and honestly look at upper eventing is very concerning to me. Many horses compete at the uppers levels and never have any issues. And it has been my experience that event riders take horse suitability very seriously. If you want to look for problems you can find them, but In my experience generalizations and blowing things out of proportion are not ways to find solutions.

[Jealoushe]

But more horses are dying at hunter jumper shows, so why choose Eventing as the one who “asks too much”?

[millerra]

where did you find the statistics on this? [honest question]

[Bending_Line]

I would like to know that about stats/sources too. In terms of notoriety, the pony hunter Humble at Devon is the only one that comes to mind, and that was 2012 (and not while being ridden). Maybe one junior hunter ridden by one of Amanda Lyerly’s good juniors a few years back. Not to say that there are not problems in that world but I would be surprised if the horse death rate is greater in the H/J disciplines

[Rallycairn]

Where did you get this figure, and is it a percentage or an absolute number of horse deaths at h/j shows vs events? Thanks

[Blugal]

Turning one discipline versus another is not a way to answer the valid questions about THIS sport. It does the entire horse world no good to point fingers and “yabbut” each other.

When eventing is able to say: here are our stats. Here’s the work we’ve done. Here are the comparables. Here are our ongoing efforts to improve, and eliminate unecessary risk. Here is the level of risk we find acceptable and the reasons for that: then we are addressing the issues.

[endlessclimb]

Ehh… if one sport has a DRASTICALLY higher injury rate “per capita” then we, as horseman, owe it to the horses to have a frank discussion about it.

I think NOT comparing and contrasting is a disservice.

[Willesdon]

Look up the safety stats for FEI and for British Eventing. The evidence is there, changes have been made, Eventing is becoming safer by several metrics. The question to ask, perhaps, is why USEA doesn’t produce similar reports with annual stats.