WTF Are We Doing?

[erinmeri]

@Jealoushe

Yes supported by data I am aware of, but it’s not my ability to share it. Sorry I wasn’t clear.

So, you’re claiming that you have H/J data that supports your assertion that the H/J disciplines see as many, if not more, catastrophic accidents? I find your position absolutely shocking, and I would love to see your data.

In my over 40 years of being involved in the H/J world, I know personally of very few horse or rider fatalities. The only of the (very few - 3 or 4?) H/J horse deaths that I know of personally or due to threads here or media coverage have been at the end of a longe line or a needle (other than Hickstead). The two H/J rider fatalities I can think of off the top of my head were a trip and fall (recent thread here), and a friend who fell in front of a fence while schooling and was stepped on.

H/J accidents that result in horse or rider fatalities are exceedingly rare to my knowledge. Since you claim otherwise, I’d love to see your data.

Edited: “longe”, not “lunge”.

[Jealoushe]

No, I didn’t claim to have the data nor did I say the fatalities were caused by accidents.

I’ve seen the information, I’m not owner of it. It was shocking to me too initially! But it does make sense when you think of how many HJ horses are showing compared to eventing.

People need to realize for every fatality you hear about in the media, there’s a handful more you don’t. It never gets out.

[endlessclimb]

@Jealoushe

It is actually a fact known to me

Whut.

[erinmeri]

@Jealoushe

No, I didn’t claim to have the data nor did I say the fatalities were caused by accidents.

I’ve seen the information, I’m not owner of it. It was shocking to me too initially! But it does make sense when you think of how many HJ horses are showing compared to eventing.

People need to realize for every fatality you hear about in the media, there’s a handful more you don’t. It never gets out.

1. If they weren’t caused by accidents, what caused them?

2. So you’re making a wild assertion and won’t back it up with the data because you don’t “own it”?

3. your last sentence in the second paragraph undermines your assertion. What are the PER CAPITA rates?

4. if for every fatality you hear about in the media, there are a “handful” more that you don’t, how does your “data” back your assertion that H/J deaths are so common when there are literally only a handful of accounts in the last several decades in the media?

I still do not believe your assertion that the overall H/J numbers exceed eventing, and I find it even more incredible that the per capita rates would be higher, too.

[endlessclimb]

Hope this is the case, for the horse’s sake. If the riders want to run the 100 miles instead, I’m all for it!

[Janet]

Rather than berating Jealoushe for not breaking a confidentiality agreement, it would make more sense to ask why the source of the information (I am guessing USEF or USHJA) insists on keeping it confidential.

[endlessclimb]

She included barrel racers in her creed.

They don’t record this, as far as I know.

So sorry, I call [bull]

[erinmeri]

@Janet

Rather than berating Jealoushe for not breaking a confidentiality agreement, it would make more sense to ask why the source of the information (I am guessing USEF or USHJA) insists on keeping it confidential.

I agree that governing bodies shouldn’t keep such data confidential, but I disagree that we shouldn’t question the validity of @Jealoushe’s assertions.

[BrownDerby]

The 100 mille foot race was run last month, to good reviews. Hundreds of volunteers make it happen.

[endlessclimb]

Was it run by the riders?

EDIT actually that’s not a bad idea. Let’s make it a prerequisite for putting a horse through it. You must run the same 100 miles, non stop, through the night and all. If you don’t complete, you can’t enter the Tevis.

[K_VanOlst]

@Janet

Rather than berating Jealoushe for not breaking a confidentiality agreement, it would make more sense to ask why the source of the information (I am guessing USEF or USHJA) insists on keeping it confidential.

I unequivocally do not believe jealoushe has actually seen any data from USEF or USHJA. Zero percent chance.

I agree if the data is actually collected, it should be public - to prevent people like jealoushe from making up their “alternative facts”.

[BrownDerby]

Possibly. Every person I’ve met as a first timer has said one has no idea of how fit one needs to be. One of our barn students, a middle aged biology professor, has run it and the Tahoe Rim 100 several times.
Sorry for the derail.

[K_VanOlst]

Also FTR it isn’t “berating” anyone to ask for them to provide proof when they’re making wild accusations and stating they are “facts”.

[endlessclimb]

Ok, back to eventing. If one of the biggest things to keeping horrendous falls from happening is empowering the organizers/TDs/PTBs to pull unsafe riders off course, what can we do to facilitate that? and/or What can we do to increase the penalties on the riders that don’t pull up?

[tabula_rashah]

Actually yes, there are a lot of us who both run ultras and do endurance rides. One of my goals in life is to complete the Vermont 100 on foot and on my horses. And yes, I run at night. No I don’t take breaks when I’m running an ultra like a horse does, no there are no “vet checks” for human.

Edited to add that my profile pic on here is at the finish of an Iron Person Equathon. I ride the course, then vet my horse out, then run the same course

[Jealoushe]

I’m not making things up so please stop calling me a liar. If you feel such a way about my posts I’m not sure why you engage or don’t just put me on ignore.

@endlessclimb I fully admitted my barrel racing comment was anecdotal but you chose to ignore that. I also wasn’t talking about fatalities in that sport but injuries.

[Jealoushe]

Have you watched the FEI Eventing/ safety summit from this year? They talk about this issue at length.

[endlessclimb]

@Jealoushe

Impossible to know without data, but I see many many injured hunters, dressage and possibly the most is WP and barrel racing just anecdotal evidence.

Also QFP.

BS on your “facts”. You’re flat making stuff up.

[Jealoushe]

I don’t delete my posts unless asked so you don’t really need to play games with the QFP stuff.

[K_VanOlst]

@Jealoushe

I’m not making things up so please stop calling me a liar. If you feel such a way about my posts I’m not sure why you engage or don’t just put me on ignore.

You don’t get to police how I participate on these boards. In the absence of PROOF (which you refuse to provide and I do not believe exists), it is your opinion that more horses die at h/j shows than eventing. It isn’t a fact without VERIFIED DATA. Acting like it is strips any credibility you think you have. By all means, keep digging yourself into a hole where you keep claiming nonsensical statements as fact and then get mad when people ask for legitimate verification.