WTF Are We Doing?

[erinmeri]

@Jealoushe

If you think hunter jumper horses aren’t dying too you’re absolutely in the wrong. I would say more H/J horses die at shows in a year than eventers. You just never hear about it because it’s usually back in the stall where they pass and it’s all hush hush. The governing bodies would have the facts.

This assertion is so incredibly insane that I almost cannot believe you made it. Is there a pizzagate-esque Illuminati cabal in the USHJA/USEF?

ETA: Illuminati, not intelligentsia!

[endlessclimb]

I’m not playing games. You went from “I would say” and “anecdotal evidence” to “these be da facts.”

No.

[K_VanOlst]

@erinmeri

This assertion is so incredibly insane that I almost cannot believe you made it. Is there a pizzagate-esque intelligentsia cabal in the USHJA/USEF?

Right? Although I think jealoushe is in Canada so maybe she has a mole in EC feeding her data /s

[tabula_rashah]

I’m not sure why it doesn’t make sense that horses in the H/J world would be more apt to have a fatality in the stall than in the ring considering the nature of what they are doing. Are they going to die from knocking a rail down? No but they might from being lunged to death while being a billion pounds overweight and having some kind of drug cocktail in their system

[MorganMaresVT]

@tabula_rashah

One of my goals in life is to complete the Vermont 100 on foot and on my horses. And yes, I run at night. No I don’t take breaks when I’m running an ultra like a horse does, no there are no “vet checks” for human.

I’m vet scribing next weekend. I live along the trail and my neighbor hosts an aid station/vet check. If you ever decide to come do it, I’d love to meet you. And I am always happy to offer a temporary campsite at my farm to anyone who wants to come and ride some of the trail

[erinmeri]

@tabula_rashah

I’m not sure why it doesn’t make sense that horses in the H/J world would be more apt to have a fatality in the stall than in the ring considering the nature of what they are doing. Are they going to die from knocking a rail down? No but they might from being lunged to death while being a billion pounds overweight and having some kind of drug cocktail in their system

See my quote above about the very few deaths I know of being at the end of a longe line or needle… that said, still very rare.

[tabula_rashah]

definitely! I would have loved to come up and do one of the shorter distances this year but I was supposed to be in Peru so didn’t sign up (and then of course Peru got canceled).
Thank you for volunteering!!

[betonbill]

Not mentioned in the problem is the course designer. There are some who purposely design courses that are complicated for the rider, but not the horse. Others can be downright dirty when it comes to whether or not the horse can understand the jump. I think this can play a huge role in whether or not there are horse or rider injuries/fatalities during an event.

[Impractical_Horsewoman]

Probably taking this thread off the rails even more, so feel free to ignore…but it’s also worth asking what sports allow for the “best life” for horses, not just the “least deaths during competition.” What a lot of people like about eventing and endurance is the hands-on aspect of the horse culture of the sport for the rider. (I ride lower-level dressage at facility that’s pretty hands-on for most riders, with turnout, FWIW.)

For me, just in terms of my own ethics, I’m inclined to judge a person’s horsemanship outside the ring and less by the discipline they ride.

Also…I’m currently just a weenie half-marathoner, but there is a whole subculture of people who routinely race distances much longer than marathons–@tabula_rashah is a huge inspiration for me…maybe one day I will make it up to 50K. So it’s not like “woah, we ask crazy things of horses we’d never ask of humans.”

[tabula_rashah]

@Impractical_Horsewoman awww thank you (blush)

I absolutely am drawn to endurance for it’s science-y horse care aspect (well that an the love of trails and being able to wear all the purple in the world lol)

[Marigold]

@tabula_rashah

Iron Person Equathon. I ride the course, then vet my horse out, then run the same course

…you do WHAT?! That is so cool! I’ve never heard of such a thing, but that sounds unbelievably impressive.

[tabula_rashah]

It is wicked hard but soooo much fun! You can either do Iron Person or you can have a partner where one person runs and one person rides and your times get added together. My friend and I are headed to the World Championship this September as a partner entry (I’m so excited about this!)

[Texarkana]

@Impractical_Horsewoman

What a lot of people like about eventing and endurance is the hands-on aspect of the horse culture of the sport for the rider.

It’s ironic. I’m definitely one of those people, but it wasn’t always that way.

From my perspective (and this could be inaccurate), 30 years ago, eventing was FAR worse than it is today. There were always good horse people, but there were a lot of pure adrenaline junkies who loved the rush. People who paid for kids like me to do the boring conditioning in between events and fox hunts. People who might as well have been doing motocross because they treated their horses like disposable ATVs.

I wish we had publicly available data on fatalities from back then, because it seems like there is no way they could be fewer.

When we went to short format, so many of those types were weeded out from the upper levels. Most of those who remained are the people who truly enjoy the process of preparing a horse for all three phases. The riding and horsemanship are collectively so much better than what I worked with in my youth in the heart of Area 2.

Yet we are still trying to figure out how to keep XC challenging without the all-out endurance fest that was long format.

[quietann]

Yes. This is, once again, a denominator problem. (I create the best possible denominator datasets for health claims studies, so I’m tuned into denominator issues.)

[Impractical_Horsewoman]

Truthfully, when I read about eventing at the Olympics in Mexico, or even see videos of “way back when” I am inclined to agree!

[endlessclimb]

@Jealoushe

If you think hunter jumper horses aren’t dying too you’re absolutely in the wrong. I would say more H/J horses die at shows in a year than eventers. You just never hear about it because it’s usually back in the stall where they pass and it’s all hush hush. The governing bodies would have the facts.

Since the original got flagged/deleted, here’s my new QFP with make-believe “facts”. Otherwise known as: Bull “Honkey”.

[SoCoPony]

Am I to understand that if one would go to a H/J show that the stabling area would be “littered” with dead horses.

But shhh no one say anything about it.

What the sweet Secretariat kind of tin foil hat conspiracy thinking is this.

But I am just a horse of course.

[Bearx2]

In an ideal world it it would be possible to stop the comparisons between disciplines but we don’t live in an ideal world. We live in a world where eventing’s short comings play out on social media and other news outlets, which means that we have to be transparent in everything we do to correct any issues . Part of being transparent is a willingness to listen to people who have concerns about the sport and addressing their concerns. While I think we are with in our rights to ask for people to be fair and look at all the facts before addressing something anything that can be perceived as shutting them down is not going to help eventing in the long run. And [quote=“starsandsun, post:2558, topic:386102”]
“we’re not here to debate the relative safety of one equestrian sport over another. We’re here to understand the problem within eventing and discuss/consider what can be done to make this particular event safer, regardless of the challenges/problems other disciplines might
[/quote] I this can be perceived that way .

Ps . I loved your response to this post and felt you asked a really good question

[McGurk]

It was Deltawave. I borrowed that sig line for a while because I loved it so much.

[K_VanOlst]

@McGurk

It

I may have seen it in your signature line then! It made such an impact on me, I quote it frequently.