These types of questions are ok when the facts have been established. Everybody was on Buck for drugs when it turns out to have been a paperwork lapse about a prescription he’s used since childhood. Maybe the horse had a cardiac event. Maybe he stepped on a bell boot. Categorically stating 5 year olds should not go training with amateurs may be your opinion and that’s fine. Personally I have known 5 year olds happy at prelim and others that needed alot of mileage at novice. We don’t know enough about the circumstances to have an opinion yet.
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Well, and now the horse is apparently 7 despite an incorrect USEA registration.
A 7 year old may or may not be ready for the level - totally depends on the mileage (which it does not appear this horse really had).
For me, I would say categorically that a 5 year old is not, unless it’s a freak ridden by Boyd Martin or the like.
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And if it weren’t for the new modified, the two levels would be right next to each other in a presumed progression. Saying training isn’t technical but prelim is indicates that training, as a whole, is too soft?
I haven’t seen that in my area, I’d say training has some pretty tough questions asked of the horses, both with terrain and the jumps themselves.
I think it’s been discussed here before… Modified arose because the skill gap between Training and Preliminary is huge. The questions get harder, more speed is expected, etc. I’ve known any number of riders and horses who just could not make the jump.
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The rulebook says "The Modified Level is for the training level horse with the intent on progressing to the FEI CCI1* and Preliminary level. "
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My horse and I were one who could not make the jump to Prelim. We were very consistently successful at Training. I thought we could go Prelim - this was before Modified levels were introduced. Turned out my horse and I were both overfaced at Prelim. Fortunately he was smart enough to simply hit the brakes and say “no thanks”.
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Examination is critical, when accidents happen, to avoid such accidents in the future.
However, I know I am aware of my own tendency in the past to want to think -it could not happen to me-when tragedy strikes, because (fill in the blank). I would have done things differently. Of course now that I am older I know it could be me…
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Arguing with someone who doesn’t feel that jumping a horse over any solid obstacle is safe is not helpful for the sport of eventing.
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Does anyone have an image of the fence in question?
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I understand it was a narrow triple bar set up a few strides downhill. Horse flipped
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Well in this case, it clearly wasn’t. And it wasn’t even a “big” fence.
You are your own worst enemy here.
Arguing with you regarding the age readiness of a horse to jump a certain height doesn’t matter in the grand scheme if you don’t think horses should jump solid obstacles period. You have said on this thread that you don’t think the 4* and 5* should exist and have gone further to say you don’t think horses should be jumping solid obstacles period, so of course you don’t agree that a 5yo is ready to jump Training.
If you personally think horses shouldn’t be eventing at all, that’s fine and is your opinion to have, but it doesn’t make sense to then discuss with you ages of horses at certain levels.
We don’t even know exactly what happened in this fall, so it’s all speculation on the internet. For example, the rider is a pro, not an amateur as you’ve stated. In addition, 5yos can also run Prelim. Training should not be unforgiving and you seem to be making a lot of assumptions about what you think the course was like or suggesting that the horse had limited scope.
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Right, that’s good and well to say… but apparently it is, because a horse is now dead because of it.
Hence my saying “maybe all the fences SHOULD fall down, no matter the height.” If a level, by everyone’s descriptions here, is easy peasy and yet a horse STILL died, are you not seriously concerned??
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And also, I acknowledge what you said waaayyyy upthread.
The person is a pro which you did not seem to realize so age restrictions or MER’s for amateurs would not affect them. I made no assumptions regarding the rider’s skills as a pro.
I also don’t understand our logic, you seem to think that an amateur should have a different standard regarding the age of the horse they can ride at a certain level? Horse age is not always related to the horse’s ability to pack a amateur around.
Also, all the fences falling down happens in SJ
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[edit] read the thread before you come in to put me on blast.
… what was the point of this comment? A fence that didn’t fall down killed a horse.
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Are you going to post an apology to the rider for all the negative things you assumed and said about her and her horse when you thought the horse was 5?
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No because now I have even MORE questions as to how this horse got registered incorrectly, and obviously not under his JC name.
A 7 year old may, or may not, be ready for training level. In my mind, it’s impossible for a 5 year old to be. So perhaps he was ready, and perhaps he was not, but now I have questions as to the motivation one might have for registering a horse as a totally different age.
FWIW The Chronicle corrected the gelding’s age to 7. Ready to Rumble was not his JC name. My condolences to the rider and her team.
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Was the mistake in the USEA horse registration corrected? Do people do that a lot, fudge the age by a few years?
