WTF Are We Doing?

[Winding_Down]

[QUOTE=vineyridge;8172243]
Adding endurance back as a factor seems to me would lessen the dressage effect to some extent because people in long format days bought XC horses and then put dressage on them. Now it seems many people buy dressage horses and try and put XC on them. Until the type of horse changed again, the risk factors from tired horses would probably increase at the upper levels.

Unless I’m wrong, XC jumping style from speed and impulsion (TB type scope) is very different from the usual sj WB type power and scope. ERA is begging the FEI for more eventing specific dressage and sj. The FEI is not listening.

The more complicated the complex, the more WB ability is needed; but the distance and speed factors of the rest of the course seem work against WB ability. The speed studies seem to me to lead to this conclusion. To my thinking, this is a huge issue in XC.[/QUOTE]

Yes but ULR are learning that they still need a good bit of blood to be successful. I recent had a very well respected ULR tell me that he would be trying to buy my ISH except that he did not have at least 75% blood. That being said, you do not see many of the top seeking out the pure TB these days, but the dressage may be a part of that. I have found that the TBs can do well with the complicated questions - although purpose bred horses do have the upper hand, if the purpose part of the breeding is successful…

It often seems we Americans are one step behind the Europeans. They figured out that they still need a good bit of blood several years ago and we are just now catching up. Look at Jung thread and quotes from him regarding needing a good bit of TB and a cross country horse first. He also states (I believe) that the sort of horse he picks does not differ markedly from the sort he would’ve picked for the LF.

Trading Aces - what a horse and he did do reasonably well. Not sure why they sent him along as it could’ve been soundness issues that made him better suited for the jumpers/equitation classes.

[BaroquePony]

Look at the entire horse industry in the US. There are millions of people with horses. And it’s one big confused mess.

Let’s go breed some QH Halter Horses … talk about totally dysfunctional.

[BaroquePony]

And a lot of the dressage riders don’t jump and have no real “forward” on their horses. Jumping is a huge help in learning how to ride anything FORWARD. It can be an organized method of teaching people on how to easily ride a bolt or a buck.

[Lady_Eboshi]

What would you guys think about a national federation to “license” riders and trainers along the lines of the German system? Would this go a longer way toward solving our problems?

[vineyridge]

The FEI shortened courses only within the last three years or so from 7200m-6800m to 6800m-6500m at the 4* level. No reasons given. Badminton this year was only 6500+ meters.

Looking at the 2015 Badminton results, only Mark Todd in the top 4 had a horse who had only one TB grandparent. The top two horses had TB sires. #3 was a full TB. #5 had two TB grandsires and is a Trak. SJ dramatically changed the Blood profile of the top finishing horses because full and high percentage TBs excelled in XC.

[omare]

“Catty women are far more dangerous than horses will ever be.”

How about ass#@% are far more dangerous than horses will ever be–I think they come in both sexes and all ages and all colors.

[BaroquePony]

ETA:

Posted by Lady Eboshi:

What would you guys think about a national federation to “license” riders and trainers along the lines of the German system? Would this go a longer way toward solving our problems?

I think it would help tremendously. But it has to be based on a good foundation and fair.

[BaroquePony]

I’ve worked with BHSIs, German licensed instructors, Cadre Noir instructs and SRS guys (they are the best for an amazing foundation) … they all pretty much have the same foundation for riding and horse care. Yes, there are some very distinct differences once you get up to a certain level of riding ability, but it’s that FOUNDATION that allows you to go in all kinds of directions and stay solid and safe.

[snoopy]

[QUOTE=Winding Down;8171961]
Tripped, broke leg, geeze, that is freaky. Sounds like it could’ve happened at BN as easily as it did at the CCI*** [/QUOTE]

Yet someone posted that this is NOT likely to happen at the lower levels. A fall is a fall, regardless of level. Greener horses/riders are more likely to make those mistakes that result in falls. Falls are falls.

[IFG]

I believe that IGF is really me–IFG. We worked on some event accident report forms. Discussed data that were needs to assess accident rates. Much has been incorporated into the current discussion.

[QUOTE=BaroquePony;8172042]
You’re welcome frugalannie

Deltawave and JER were very instrumental. I also have had a TBI, but maybe not as bad as frugalannie’s … so I don’t remember IGF’s input. There were several others that knew what they were talking about. So, please don’t be insulted if I forgot who is who.

My TBI was caused when the BO of a barn I was hired to work at went against my recommendation to get rid of one specific horse before it hurt one of the kids. I also stated flat out that I refused to work with that horse anymore.

She pulled a fast one on me one afternoon and stuck me unexpectedly with the six horse rig and that horse was loose in the area … it snuck up behind me at a walk and spun and double barreled me in the head. I didn’t even know it was out.

Catty women are far more dangerous than horses will ever be.[/QUOTE]

[frugalannie]

Hi there IFG. Yes, it was you whom I meant! I fixed my original post. That’s what I get for posting after reading an article about immunology.

[IFG]

[QUOTE=frugalannie;8172434]
Hi there IFG. Yes, it was you whom I meant! I fixed my original post. That’s what I get for posting after reading an article about immunology.[/QUOTE]

LOL! I am trying really hard to stay away from that literature and focus on HSR.

[BaroquePony]

Posted by omare:

“Catty women are far more dangerous than horses will ever be.”

How about ass#@% are far more dangerous than horses will ever be–I think they come in both sexes and all ages and all colors.

While I agree with this ^ in theory … and there are good straight forward folks of all genders and colors and whatevers (those are my preference, they’re a lot more fun) I’ve seen way too many incidences and issues to ignore certain things.

I’ve even discussed the “whys” with Psychiatrists to get their take on it. It varies but the main thing is women in general are not as well respected in this country, and then there is a downward spiral of issues.

[BaroquePony]

How about the difference between an “honest horse” and a “dishonest horse”? They exist, and I test them out for that a bit before I begin to work with them. Just makes good sense.

[Lady_Eboshi]

I evented a horse that some people considered a tough ride–because he WOULD stop or run out if you let him–for seven years. I interpreted his “chicken” streak differently: If he either didn’t understand the question, or didn’t think you were serious, he’d STOP rather than make a mistake and crash or flip. His self-preservation instinct very often also took care of ME, and I’ll take that kind of “dishonesty” ANY DAY over what they tried to sell me when he aged out; a TB mare who would happily have thrown herself off an open drawbridge had you asked. Nothing but air between her ears, and I declined to buy her. Honest to a fault, but she was ALSO the kind that can get an imperfect rider killed. And damn, I KNOW I’m “imperfect!” :lol:

[fooler]

[QUOTE=snoopy;8172392]
Yet someone posted that this is NOT likely to happen at the lower levels. A fall is a fall, regardless of level. Greener horses/riders are more likely to make those mistakes that result in falls. Falls are falls.[/QUOTE]

Some 20-25 years ago a JR rider from my old barn trotted her 7-8 year old horse over the warm-up X-rails before Novice XC at KHP. The horses stumbled and they took him to the then nearest vet facility where it they discovered his leg was broken, fetlock area IIRC.
Until then he had not taken a lame step that “we” saw. So a bad step or just a weak spot in the bone can go at any time.

[HorsesinHaiti]

[QUOTE=frugalannie;8172434]
Hi there IFG. Yes, it was you whom I meant! I fixed my original post. That’s what I get for posting after reading an article about immunology.[/QUOTE]

So. Totally. What I do on a regular basis. Though I have other topics than immunology that trigger my internal autocowreck.

[JP60]

jealoushe,

I think I’ve seen the future and it may solve all your issues for upper level riders. Check this out

https://youtu.be/_luhn7TLfWU

The future of Professional Eventing. Now there is no worry about the horse and given many of the responses on this thread, rider safety is optional … since they know the risk and choose to go anyway. When you think about it, this is the natural progression for even if the jumper breaks, it just gets replaced before the next go. Granted, the gait is different, but a mod could be built into get that galloping feeling. Now training is just an upload away.

The vehicle will need some training, it looks like maybe starter level for now, but I figure they can push it up the levels pretty quick to get it ready for some real Eventing. Once established, the Pro circuit will take off with their wonder machines, jumping impossible trappy questions with fearless joy while us puddle jumpers continue with our inefficient, always eating and pooping animals, running around our same old boring courses full of logs log and more logs…and happy.

Breeders of top of the line 4* equines may need to either learn how to be mechanics or consider breeding for those who still love the bond of a horse or can’t afford the perfect 4* jumper.

FEI will love this machine for they can finally remove the words from their charter they have been paying lip service to for a number of years; that being “the welfare of the horse”.

[BaroquePony]

:lol:

[BaroquePony]

That thing looks like a rough ride.